thing! I ended up selling it after trying every trick I could think of to stop it. I ordered my QCC700 with a rudder, if I had ordered it with a skeg I would still own it. I loved the boat and HATED the rudder. All rudders. I have never paddled anything before or after the QCC that had its kind of characteristics. The bow does not move with the wave action (under 1ft)it just cuts through. The boat almost felt lifeless which I liked and at times disliked. It is the best A to B boat I have paddled and is great for fitness paddling. if you are looking for a rolling boat I would not focus on these two boats. The Valley Aquanaut is my favorite all around boat. I am looking for an Argonaut or Naut HV in Carbor/Kevlar and am selling my Standard composite for fit reasons. I think it is time to delay your decision and start paddling some boats. Bill
No kayak's right for everyone, but I still think you need a new book. Given the near infinite options, I have to doubt the "every" trick comment. More likely you tried some pads and similar junk and gave up on a spectacular hull.
Maybe there is something about the geometry (with stock setup) that cuases posture issues for certain height ranges. Seatpan could be a bit longer. The numbness issues seem more common with really tall guys - and seem to also always be with RUDDER (get the ONNO footboard already!!!). Otherwise there is nothing particularly special about the hull and deck of the 700 that would limit dialing in the outfitting. Worth it.
I had minor issues early on as it was my first SINK and a big change from a SOT (and looking back that seems to be a big part of it). Now it's fine for hours and I get out more flexible than when I got in. I do have the skeg, and so ditching the footpegs was a no brainer (now that Pat has a decent drop in footboard system it's a no brainer with rudder too).
Outfitting is very personal, and for some that means minor tweaks, for others stripping everything and starting from a clean hull (not usually needed, but not as extreme as it sounds either).
Most of the things people do only address symptoms. Pads and such often just reinforce whatever bad posture and habit are causing problems (seems more than a few with issues also have prexisting back complaints - I did). Short term fixes with longer term consequences. Small things like a decent backband and ditching tiny foot pegs for a full foot surface are night and day over pads. These address posture and promote better technique - which is part of a long term solution. 700 in particular favors active paddling, and cushy don't cut it. Spartan is actually more comfortable as the miles go by (think surf ski bucket). The times I do get stiff or have back issues are the times I'm doing group pace/lily dip stuff. More sitting and doing intermitent strokes than being in a groove and working on rotation (= circulation!).
Also, if a kayak is very stable you can relax, if not you'll be tense (and will get beat up even with perfect fit). Whole different set of outfitting concerns - and things that change over time for most. Maybe why it's called outfitting and not outfit/outfitted.
Do see if you can get enough butt time in each to get a good long evaluation. I have a Fathom and while I like the hull I can not sit in it for more than an hour without cramping. I am working through all the fixes to see if I can make it work for me, but have not hit the magic combination yet. I am surprised that others are not having the same problem with the new seats Eddyline is using - it must be the way I am put together. I like the Eddyline thermoform boats but it is not easy to get any help (or even any response) from their customer’s service folks.
Grey, you must confuse my Q boat with the QCC 700. I am reffering to the Valley Q boat, and yes I did try every trick I could think of and got nowhere. If fact it was getting dangerous as it got so bad that I could not feel the bottom half of my right leg. No other boat before or after did anything close to this. Undoubtedly it was fitment, but I should not have to work that hard. I cut out the seat and made several mincell set ups. As for dumping a great hull, if you meant the QCC you are right. If you meant the Valley Q, not so much, and I love Valley boats. My spinal issues are likely at the root of this issue, but no other boats were causing this problem. The QCC was my first and last rudder boat, entirely a rudder issue and it will NEVER happen again.
Like the plastic Tempest 165 or 170 or a Necky Chatham 16 or 17? These will not hamper your learning, are cheap-ish and readily available used.
Honestly, I've gone thru way too many kayaks over the past couple of years and I've reached the same conclusion as some already mentioned - to "take your paddling to the next level" you only need a basic kayak that is not too limiting and lets you do what you intend to do. Then paddle it very hard for a year and only then will you know what you really want. Because what you want will have changed (likely) after a year of skill development!
For $600-900 if you are lucky you can get one of the above used, learn all you want in it, abuse it if needed, figure out what you want in paddling. Then, if it is a different boat will help yo uthere, sell the plastic for about what you paid for it and get what you want -;)
Seriously, don't buy new if you do not know what your long term needs are and you just want to improve your paddling. Much better results can be had with just about any good playful kayak when you take it in various conditions as your learning progresses. And take some classes with a good instructor or find someone good to paddle with!
Case in point - I got on a whim a Perception Sonoma 13.5 last year as a light and cheap day boat to take to the river after work or lend to guests. Guess what - I've put more miles in it than any of the other "real sea kayaks" I've had next to it. Learned a lot in it and ... I've almost nailed down what I want in my next boat, and that is certainly not what I thought I wanted last year -;) . I'm still trying to sell my last "fast" kayak that is great in its own right and had taught me a lot about balance and the tradeoffs in boat design - just turned out not to be the kind of boat I thought I'd love only one season ago...