I found this link quite helpful during my frustration with acquiring a roll. (Courtesy of Jay Babina and Ross Leidy) http://www.blueheronkayaks.com/kayak/index.html
(Go to articles, then sculling)
After acquiring this technique I found the sculling brace to be somewhat of a crutch maneuver when my roll failed. As a crutch maneuver it can keep you in the cockpit rather than wet exit, and hopefully give you the ability to fine tune an initial roll.
I found the key points to the sculling brace to be a slow (not fast) fluid sweep of only 3 to 4 foot movement at the paddle tip before the change to the reverse sweep. This slow short sweep has a lot more lift and support than I initially imagined.
Keep up the good work in what ever works for you. Persistence will get you there, and you will welcome that moment of personal assurance with a smile. It's worth it!
boat control I have hesitated to weigh in with advice, as I am no expert on rolling. However, boat control is essential to side sculling, static bracing, and rolling.
My sense is that one is controlling the boat with ones’ lower body - keeping it from falling over on you or bringing it back under you.
For me an essential key was remembering to control the boat with my thighs and hips. The boat will then either keep you up enough (in a static brace) or bring you up (in a roll).
Yes, I can swim I’ll admit that I don’t do it regularly, but I can. I really do think I’ve worked out some of the psych issues last summer, and now I can actually see what’s going on mechanically. I was all ready to “go for it all” last week, but I noticed that my blade was plunging, which my instructors have told me before is an issue. Next week I’m going to try to get this ironed out.
I don’t do this for attention In fact, although I do appreciate all of the great advice, I post because I believe that there are a lot of people (possibly non-posters) who may find these discussion threads informative. Contrary to what appears from my threads, I spend very little of my time pondering about this, and most of my paddling related time either having fun paddling, or having fun practicing skills development.
That’s What I Do Sing I only post to share experiences and engage in a discourse that may be informative to our community of paddlers. If I see that this is not what is happening, I will post no more about this.
Kayak Roll & First Roll I purchased, viewed, and have worked with Jay’s method on your recommendation. I intend to pursue his method further when I get out of the pool and back in the water.
Which for what 1st Roll is great for solo work, in sea kayaks.
EJ’s is great for attitude, pace, simplicity (he really keeps you from getting confused by keeping you focused), and when to back up to previous step to keep things successful and positive. The bonus “instructor” section is good for anyone.
Kayak Roll for underwater footage, breaking it down, descriptions, troubleshooting - and most of all “Shedding the resistance”, which applies to EVERY part of the roll - not just the sweep.
I taught myself from Kayak Roll, used 1st Roll to quickly get offside (felt different, and different method let me ignore that). I use some of EJ’s thinking and focus on keeping things simple, focused and always positive when helping others. I’ll go back to it to get better at all of it.
I guess what I’m suggesting is something like using 1st Roll methods with an EJ approach/attitude and Kayak Roll understanding of elements and common problems.
I realized these teach “different” rolls - but I also find this helped me really understand things - and not get some fluke roll that only works when everything’s perfect and comes and goes when it’s not.
Multiple methods might seem more confusing, but can help prevent you from getting too hung up on any one thing or way to think about and do it.
Roll Killers I would have to say there is some stuff in the Kayak Roll that actually made it harder for me to roll. I learned to roll once in a class and then bought the tape and it killed my roll.
The set up position with both hands out of the water- this does not work if you have a short torso, a fat gut, a surf kayak with the seat set up very high.
The rolling motion starts as soon as you start the sweep and you should be up by the time the paddle is perpendicular. This really does not work for me sorry. Now I know how to roll I know this is crazy to try with my surf kayak or waveski.
A layback roll will make you go blind or worse ---- IF you have a short heavy torso the layback is really the way to go. From the pure physics of the roll it is the easiest way to be successful. I am up and paddling quicker using the EJ method than using the “Safe” set up and protected forward position nonsense.
The part about engaging the rolling knee is helpful, the trouble shooting segments are somewhat helpful.
Honestly I would chuck the Kayak Roll and just go with EJs method if you are going to teach yourself.
Starting the sweep I got my right side after torturing an endless stream of coaches who watched me be “almost there” forever, which is personalized version of a CtoC. I started the left last season late with a full layback, extended paddle etc. But it really happened out of weekly pool sessions over this winter, which I spent sculling deeper and deeper and then coming up.
As a result of this diff in how I learned it, my left side sweep can start just about anywhere and I’ll come up. Or just stick the paddle or GP out there and place a little bit of weight on it (in non-conditions). But the right side, unless I intentionally place the image of sculling up in my head, that paddle just doesn’t want to be useful for a roll until it is approaching a right angle from the boat - at least right now.
Rolling Many times it’s the boat. Over the years as I have taught people, I often put them in my kayak and they roll. Much of it has to do with how you’re braced in the boat. Also, the lay-back style of rolling is light years easier to start with than trying to master a C to C or screw roll. Using the extended paddle is also way easier.
Email me and I’ll send you out the 1st Roll video to view. (this is my once a year donation because it seems you are pretty frustrated … and I do have to honor people who have paid for it) I guarantee you will roll this spring - easily. The reason I say “spring” is because it’s easier to start in shallow water on a shore rather than in a 3’ deep pool. Once you know how to roll you can roll anything, but in the beginning you need to fit pretty well. You can’t be falling out while trying to twist the boat up.
“First Roll” for me I had worked with four different instructors over a couple of years with very limited success.
Less than an hour working with a coach using Jay’s method (as shown on ‘First Roll’) and I was rolling with ease - both my boat and the instructor’s (of course the instructor’s boat was an Outer Island - the easiest and most pleasurable boat I’ve rolled).
I then bought the DVD to use as a refresher and to give back to the originator of the technique. For me, Jay’s is the best of the many rolling DVDs I’ve seen for geting someone to roll.
It's a different feeling - enough that, while I don't have this issue with a GP, with a Euro I tend to find the fully extended bit where the hand is over the end of the near blade more confounding than a less extended one where my hands are both on the shaft.
I know this is not the usual - seems that most people don't find this to be an issue. But it is out there in some like me.