NDK owners – check your backband mounts

What’s your point?
Nothing you said explains why NDK is still in the “stone age” when it comes to their construction methods. Issues with Asian construction are irrelevant, as that’s not the issue.



My point was that simply moving to the same materials and techniques that the rest of the industry uses (including other UK manufacturers) would allow NDK to produce better boats at the same prices they charge now. P&H and VSK have both made the same transition, so it’s not like there’s no blueprint for how to do it.

"Don’t read into that folk…"
One can dream :wink:

My point is
That there have been problems with ALL manufacturers, REGARDLESS of whether they employ old technology or the latest and greatest! Nigel has built boats that have endured worldwide travel for years on many expeditions using old technology successfully. Yep, there’s been problems here and there, but there have been with every manufacturer of any volume, and most I know would own up to that!



Most NDK owners here are happy with their kayaks overall.



So I’m going to let Mr. Dennis do whatever he wants. I’m sure he’d welcome your feedback directly.


Popcorn…
Check, Beer… Check, Comfy chair… Check, Ok… off we go… man this is better then any TV show… let the game begin. :wink:

‘confidence inspiriing’ cult
It is like telling deadheads that Jerry sings off key…

he’d welcome your feedback directly
I’ve often heard back directly from Nigel when I’ve written to SKUK/NDK. He is a dedicated paddler and pays attention to what works best for paddlers in the design of his boats.



He is a great ambassador for the sport.



I would only give up my Romany if I could have one to replace it :wink:

Cults are for wanna bee’s
I don’t paddle an NDK, but would, and have. My Romany served me well under hard use, as have Valley’s, Kayak Sport, Mariner, Necky etc… Lots of good boats but I think these sites to a large extent let people vent, which I guess is cool. Who cares anyway?



People like what they have and confirm their biases all the time. I think actually paddling whatever the hell you have will lead to a happier time. We could all do with typing less and paddling more.


Have 2 NDK kayaks

– Last Updated: Nov-11-10 5:59 PM EST –

Aesthetically, my Explorer LV from 2008 is pretty bad in some respects (coaming cut-out, bulkhead disks, lots of fiberglass sharpies inside until I sanded them). The new Pilgrim Expedition I recently got, on the other hand, is very nicely made. After only 5 short flatwater paddles in it, off to Georgia I drove for its baptism in salt water and surf. Great boat, and fun to paddle in the rough stuff!

However, I have to say that despite its aesthetic imperfections, the Explorer has airtight hatch compartments, no functional problems whatsoever, and got through a severe case of altitude-related "air shrinkage" (entire rear deck was obviously sucked in after driving from over 10K ft elevation to 6K ft.) without so much as a spider crack in the gel. When I gingerly lifted a hatch cover to let air in, the rear deck popped out with an audible BOP, and I feared the worst. But it was unharmed.

Best thing, of course, would be to buy an existing boat rather than order it. I didn't want to wait that long for the Pilgrim Expedition, though. And it was well worth the year-long wait.

Agree, but …
Why put up with a significant chance of a defective boat that is also heavier than it needs to be when there are lots of choices out there that paddle just as well and have a better QC record? I just don’t get it.

You can buy what YOU like
NOBODY CARES WHAT IS FLOATING YOUR ASS… NOBODY

Lots of bullshit on this site about gear… Jeez, if ya don’t like a brand don’t buy it, but for goodness sake go paddle whatever gives you a hard-on. Gear doesn’t matter. Nature and the SEA don’t care about you or your kayak. People wear me out…


“Here and there”???
Man, you have really guzzled the NDK Kool-Aid!



NDK problems are more common than not and they’ve become almost legendary. That’s nothing like the occasional quality issues that other companies experience. Moreover, NDK boats have had the SAME problems for more than a decade and nothing has been done about it. Please name one other manufacturer who has had significant quality problems, but hasn’t fixed them.



If people like you spent as much time complaining to Nigel Dennis about the crappy quality of his boats as you do bitching at me for pointing out that your ‘emperor has no clothes’, perhaps he’d get a clue and actually fix the problems.

I think people, or at least people

– Last Updated: Nov-12-10 9:42 AM EST –

like me, buy NDK because of the designs. The highest quality boat I have ever laid eyes on paddled like sh*t and weighed 30% more than it should have. It is almost like my days in the classic car world; why would anyone buy a Jaguar XKE with its crappy Lucas wiring and constant service issues. They are bought because they are beautiful, unique, and provide a great driving experience, and if you want this you must look the other way on the quality issues. My NDK has been excellent. My vacuum bagged carbon kevlar boat(not NDK) has gel cracks all over the deck ( I love this boat though). Brians issues that involve safety hazards cannot be dismissed as mere bitching. If you have trouble out in open water, it could be your last paddle. I suspect that the quality issues cannot overide peoples desire to own a boat as well designed and as satisfying to paddle as an NDK. Bill

You’re 100% correct
About the fact that nature and the sea don’t care what boat you’re in.



But many many people do, and that’s the issue to some. “Bling factor” is a big motivation for a lot of people - there are some notable paddlers in my area that truly believe that if you don’t paddle X boat or use Y paddle, you’re not a “serious kayaker”. Some go so far as to post rough water paddles, and say straight out that GP’ers are not welcome, or certain kinds of kayaks are discouraged, etc. Maybe it’s not so common where you live, but it’s a big thing here. My buying an Anas Acuta just because I liked it got me acceptance in certain circles just because one of my boats was British. One person even commented that I had “finally seen the light”…like that matters!



But I do agree with you that it truly doesn’t matter. Fashion is an illusion, and function and performance are all that matter. I paddle what I like, and so should everyone else.



But that’s not why I posted the original message - it was just a helpful hint for others to know that it might be a good idea to reinforce their decks and reconfigure their hardware if their backband is bolted into the deck.

Here’s a moment for the records…

– Last Updated: Nov-12-10 9:31 AM EST –

Salty and I seem to be unable to do well on line, but in this case I so agree... go figure.

This sidebar on NDK quality is silly. Nothing being said here about the issues is new, including the complaint that nothing is new on NDK's side. A boat is a boat is a boat until you paddle it, then it's a boat that either works for you or doesn't. A decision that a particular boat works for someone doesn't make a cult.

I have a P&H and an NDK sea kayak, and my husband has Valley and NDK, and we have a heavy and leaky but still quite neat original drop-skeg Necky Elaho as well. (Salty will know why that is still worth having around.) Then we cover at least three maybe four manufacturers in 4 WW boats - I'd have to look to be sure. The manufacturer hasn't mattered for any of these choices - just finding a boat that did what we wanted when we were looking and a dealer we liked.

How about we switch this up and start criticizing each others' cars? At least that'd be something new to entertain readers.

If we do the car thing…
I will need to order up more beer and maybe a pizza for a long run…

Typical P-brain.net

Good whiskey
It is getting into winter…

Check Discussion - apparently it’s hard to understand someone saying that a particular boat works best for them.

I’m with ya Wayne
Great advice to reinforce known stress areas. I finally went to foam only seats in surf kayaks as I kept breaking the carbon seats.



I guess I don’t paddle with people who are gear goobers, and wouldn’t associate myself with any groups that were as polarized as you mention (though I believe you!). I guess I see continual bashing from some here as just as stupid as blind loyalty.



Kool-Aid of another sort eh??

So it seems…
Got the Ardbeg all set the Highland Park in reserve…also a bit of Templeton Rye so should be good for the long cold winter.:slight_smile:

My Favorite
"Some go so far as to post rough water paddles, and say straight out that GP’ers are not welcome, or certain kinds of kayaks are discouraged, etc."



My favorite trip notice on a NE club website for a “rough water play” paddle stated that boats under 16’ and skegless boats were not allowed. Say what?