The seat on my Greenlander Pro broke today. Boat is pretty new too. I was on the water putting some pressure on the footpegs and backband while doing a high brace turn and it just snapped.
The seat hung down from just below the cockpit rim and was glassed in. It broke just below where it attached.
I need to figure out what to do now! I guess the most obvious solution is a foam seat. I’m not sure I am sold on this though because I really like the lively nature of the boat and am afraid that a foam seat will lower me too much and result in making the boat more stable and less lively.
I also have to use a backband…I am not into the foam backrest mod that a lot of people do. I use an IR ratcheting backband in all of my boats and would not want anything less. I am not sure how I would attach this if I had a foam seat.
The NDK seat was pretty crappy though. Is there another brand seat (like a Valley) that I might be able to install. If so how do I go about doing it since I don’t really have anything to mount it to?
thanks for your help
Matt
NDK seat repair
A used NDK Explorer I bought had the same break. It was repaired by a kayak dealer. The break was mended by wrapping with a few windings of epoxy coated fiberglass. Repair has held up for 3-4 years.
Dave
Hmmm
Very interesting. That may be an idea to try out. I will have to take a look at it though. It broke off quite high and there may not be much to wrap onto. Also not sure if the back band mounting location is still intact or if that is where the seat broke (likely).
I guess I forgot to mention in my original post taht I realized that the lack of places to mount hardware does not mean that I could not drill mounting holes myself, but I would like to avoid drilling if possible.
thanks
Matt
google redfish kayaks
get the number and talk to Joe. He makes an aftermarket seat that is really nice. It isn’t as low pro as a Valley foam seat.
Dogmaticus
Heck
that’s an improvement in my book. I have 3 NDK kayaks and the first thing I did was cut the seats out. (no wonder the Brits all walk like “Mr Bean”)
NDK just puts a SS bolt down through the deck at the appropriate place to attatch the back band in their boats with foam seats.
Or you could do what I did with one of mine, get a Kajak sport seat and install it.
Join the club
Very common. Easy fix as stated above. I like the NDK seat and would just automatically re-inforce any new boat with said seat. Don’t sweat it, or make it a deal, just take half an hour and fix it. Sand the gel-coat away for a secure resin bond. Paddle on!!
agree
It’s no differant to patch than it would be to glass in a new one (if you were to glass in a new one)
no big deal…never really changes the hull if you just gut the interior and start over either…
Foam seat or fix…you get to chose They will both take a little work. (but not much)
Best Wishes
Roy
options
Why are you so adamant about a back band? Since the back band is mounted to the seat it could be you having pushed too hard on the foot pegs that ripped the seat mount.
Any pressure that someone puts on the foot pegs beyond the pressure required to push the boat forward is just wasted effort.
Any pressure on a back band only limits your ability to rotate.
It’s your boat and obviously your decision. But you may want to consider all of the options, pro and cons before you discount any one approach.
Of course you should take my opinion with a huge grain of salt since none of my NDK’s have f/g seats, any kind of back bands or foam blocks.
cheers,
Back Bands
I really love my IR backband. Very comfortable with my bad back.
As far as pressure…I put normal pressure on it when paddling engaging the foot pegs alternately as I paddle as per good forward stroke technique.
Where I put a lot of stress on it though is in doing other manuevers. I really like to scull deeply, do very deeply edged reverse sweep and sculling stationary turns, and do low and high brace forward and reverse turns while agressively leaning, etc. When doing the leaned bracing turns I like to finish them with a sculling sweep while pulling the boat around with my knees and hips. Not sure if my description is worded well enough to describe…but these manuevers do require you to put a lot of pressure on the foot pegs. Every time I go paddling I like to spend about 30 minutes or so in the harbor fooling around doing this stuff and practicing rolls, bow rudders, side slips etc.
This is exactly how I broke the seat. I was paddling backwards and doing an agressive high brace turn leaning over far and pulling the boat around with pressure on the foot pegs and then…snap.
My two Valley boats got used like this all the time and never had a problem. Personally I think that the seat on the NDK boat is too thin. Not surprising that it broke. A bit disappointing for a boat designed to be super reliable on long expeditions! So much for the reliability of a rope skeg…I would much rather have a seat that I know is not going to break.
I will probably just try to repair it for now. May end up getting a new seat though eventually…especially since I think it is likely this could happen again.
Matt
Two More questions…
1. How do I fix it? I have seen two different ideas…both seem good. I would need something pretty bomb proof. I am a boat repair rock so I would need some details.
2. If I were to get the kayaksport replacement seat (looks like a good one and looks a lot like the seat I had in my Dagger Meridian which I liked a lot) then how would I go about installing it? Would I have to drill holes to bolt it in?
thanks
Matt
More foam!
“am afraid that a foam seat will lower me too much and result in making the boat more stable and less lively.”
It would be quite easy to use more minicell to raise the seat to whatever height you want.
NDK Seat
When I owned my Explorer, the seat snapped out within the first year of ownership as well. Put some pressure on the footpegs when rolling in a pool session, hip snapped up, and another kind of snap was heard. From what I hear, this is quite common with the NDK boats.
Nigel warranted the seat and sent out a new one relatively quickly, along with a personal email of apology-the dealer where I bought it glassed the new one back in, reinforcing it significantly. The stock mounting has the seat hang on ‘ears’ with little surface area for glassing and filling. If you’re not wedded to the stock design, then swap that puppy out.
I’d echo Pat’s ‘chair’ seat at Onnopaddles for comfort. He’s getting back up and operating again, and the nice thing is he can reinforce the seat layup to as flexible or stiff as you’d like it.
Broken seats are good
And totally common. Better skills=broken seats. I’ve broken my original explorer seat 4 times and tried to repair it the “correct way” with epoxy and glass tape but that broke too, so I went to my local hardware and bought some PC-7 Epoxy putty and repaired the break (right at the angle between the deck and the seat) after prepping the area with sandpaper and acetone and the fix has lasted for two years of fairly strenuous paddling. Also, I replaced the cheap white foam that Nigel uses to shim the seat to the hull with real minicell, and that added alot of support. I’m abit miffed about that success, because I broke the seat out of my other explorer (long story) and replaced it with a custom carved minicell seat that I did myself with some help from a couple of online sources that I’ll gladly e-mail you, and I absolutely swear by that seat. It’s comfy and soft and lower than Nigel’s original seat which is a good thing I found out- do not worry about lowering the liveliness out of your seat- it’s even better with abit lower center of gravity. Or maybe that’s just a personal thing. But my skills definitely are more solid with the foam seat. So now I’m waiting for the repaired seat of the explorer to break again and the seat in my greenlander pro so I can replace both of them with foam- but I’m in no hurry- custom foam seats take alot of time and butt contemplation. I also swear by foam blocks rather than back bands for two reasons. Bad back- sciatic issues to the max for awhile and the foam block has kept me paddling and feeling like I get a massage each time I go. Rescues- sliding back into a boat with a backband is much more difficult than a boat with a small foam block. And three, I can rotate much more off a block than a backband as per Jed’s post but he doesn’t wear anything under his skirt when he paddles so I wouldn’t give his post much credence. Oh shoot, did I say two? Must mean I need to go paddling again. Cheers---------------
Repair or Replace…
Thanks for all the info. I am now debating over the decision to repair or replace. The decision is largely based on whether or not the repaired seat will be 100% reliable…can’t afford to have it break on a trip.
The seat broke completely on one side…just below where it hangs from. The other side is starting to come off at the joint where it is glassed in to the top of the boat…it moves a bit and will soon break off if I don’t fix that too.
My concern is that the location of the two breaks leaves makes it hard to repair with glass cloth. I could just mix up some epoxy and thicken it up into a paste to glue the one side back together and then use it at the joint of the other side to re-inforce. Could also put some sheets of glass cloth on the sides to re-inforce.
Not sure whether this repair will be bomb proof or whether this will likely happen again. If so I would probably prefer just to replace with something more reliable…probably the Kajak Sport seat…still hooked on having a backband and the foam seats don’t really allow me to do this without having to drill through my deck or hull it seems.
What do you think?
thanks again
Matt
simple
if the seat fits your butt, fix it and support it more…if it doesn’t, replace it…
Best Wishes
Roy
Seat Repair
If you can get good access to the broken area a good repair should be stronger than a new seat. If you don’t feel comfortable doing the repair yourself go to a few marinas in your area and ask them for recommendations for a good glass repair person. In coastal areas you can usually find at least one person who stands out in a crowd of those that can do fiberglass repair.
~wetzool