how about impex boats?
I saw some at a symposium and was impressed. Canadian made, brit and greenland influenced designs, fit and finish was really remarkable.
huge problem with gelcoat in 2006
In about 3 months during the spring of 2006 I met about 7 people who were returning boats to Impex because of serious spider cracks. The boats were all less than 2 months old and the spider cracks were huge and deep.
To their credit Impex was great about replacing the kayaks. Apparently they had tried a different formula for the gelcoat which obviously didn’t work to well.
Almost perfect
Only thing I found to fix on my Force 4 was some exposed glass matting edges in a couple spots on the underside of the coaming rim. That stuff slices finger flesh in no time. I coated the areas of the exposed edges with some goop.
Mike
Impex
– Last Updated: Sep-25-07 11:16 AM EST –
Have seen really good and not so good depending on when they were made. There was one in a group I was with a couple of years ago where front one or two RDF's pulled out under nothing pressure - they hadn't been glassed in underneath.
The same thing happened with an NDK boat that I know of, tho' it was being towed in surf so the stress was probably significant. This is one of the things that a really good outfitter will often fix before the boat leaves their lot.
Point is that no one out there is perfect, no matter what any new boat should be checked over.
There is one other thing that goes to strength that the Brit manufacturers have been doing for years, which N American manufacturers were not consistently doing in earlier models. They may have mostly changed this by now. This is to add extra strength in the deck just in front of the cockpit so that it can better support the weight of a boat being pulled over it in an assisted rescue. The front deck of even very poorly made Brit boats won't cave under that, but you can't always count on that from the North American made boats.
I disagree
I can stand on the deck or hull of my old beat up infused Chatham. That boat has been assaulted and is holding up superbly. I’ve had good luck with Valley, Impex and NDK,as well. Seaward boats are beautifully crafted indeed.
NDK Warranty Claims
I purchased an Explorer about six months or so ago and have enjoyed it. It is the right boat for me. I did blow the seat out after about four or five months and had it repaired locally, in which an excellent job was done. Multiple e-mails with pictures have been sent to NDK for follow up with ZERO response. Not good.
Chatham is well built
We have a friend with an 18, and that is a decidedly well-built boat with all kinds of reinforcement. No contest that they did a great job on those boats.
But if someone is looking around at used North American boats, this is the kind of thing that can vary with older models and older builds. I didn’t say that no one is doing it, just that it has traditionally required less thought in the Brit boats versus a lot of North American boats.
I remember seeing some of the first and second year Impex boats when they first came out, like the Mystic, and there were definately less substantial characteristics to those models than what is coming out of the factory now.
Fair enough
I’d agree with you with respect to some of the Northwest ruddered touring boats in past years being lighter in the decks.
But I have to say that I think most of what I’m seeing these days is pretty tough. The Brit boats I’ve owned have not been sophisticated in materials, and as such have been heavy. However they were tough overall and only needed minor repair every couple of years. I think they have done the best job of selling crude and heavy as “stronger”, and I disagree with that. Heavy does not mean strong.
I think the boats from Valley and P&H are looking super, and recent NDK’s I’ve seen have been nice, so I think in some ways the Brits are upgrading their composite technology and that will just make great designs even better. But the crude old heavy boats still got the job done!
Lastly I’d say that I’ve seen issues with all the brands. Composites can be finniky, and you can have a 98% superbly built boat with a little nagging problem. Usually these are easily fixed…once found. I think these companies are not getting rich building a labor intensive product with typically young workers. The person who was awesome at setting cockpit coamings may have moved on etc. I think if we did the math we’d see that the margins with these boats are pretty thin and it’s a competitive business.
I think they should all charge more.
good post
Good stuff there. What you say is exactly why I don’t like blanket statements regarding any one manufacturer.
Companies like NDK, Valley and P&H are not into volume. They’re working with a semi-niche market and people who appreciate their hulls and the background and track record are willing to accept some irregularities, as you say. But these companies will never be on par with Confluence in terms of margins or volume. I’m happy to accept the flaws or not, depending on my own inspection; I like the product and I’d rather see them stick around than paddle an uninspiring one-size-fits-all from Perception.
Also have a couple of good NDK boats.
I recently bought a 2001 Explorer and it has none of the problems. A friend got a 2006 boat and again no problems. Another friend manages on of the large kayak retailers in this area. He has personally bought two NDK’s in the past year and has been very please. According to him, the NDK problems have pretty much been fixed. P&H on the other hand has been having problem which is odd since they have always had such a good reputation.
The Tempest series from Wilderness Systems have been having a whole bunch of problems that are emerging now. Leaking rims and skegs for example. Also, if you have one, pull the seat out and remove the rivet as it rubs through the hull. This has happened to several paddlers around here after paddling the boats for about a year.
old beat up infused Chatham???
The Chatham hasn’t been around long enough to be old - beat up yes, old no.
The Necky infused layup is beautiful. I remember Tom Bergh telling me he thought it the best in the business.
Subsequently, Valley’s infused layup seems comparable.
Old to me!
One of the first infused by Bruce Hamilton himself of Stoddard Aerospace! Had Gel-coat issues, as they went with a very high end yacht product that ended up being brittle. That’s been fixed for some time, but I could care less. But the lay-up is crazy strong, perhaps over-built. Yeah, Valley infused boats look nice!
NDK vs. Sea Kayak UK
I think a large distinction should be made between the two brands. Many boats of Nigel Dennis design 2006 and prior did have quality issues. When his business declared bankruptcy, a new company was organized called Sea Kayaking UK. Any boat built 2007 and later would be from this company. All the new boats I have seen have been beautifully crafted. Nigel’s new poly Romany, Valley’s poly, and P&H’s poly are made in the same factory so there is no comparison in plastic quality as it is the same.
Poly Romany arrived?
Has the long rumored poly Romany finally materialized?
Poly Romany?
Really? I thought that was an urban myth.
Where can I get one?? Poly Romany that is, not the myth.
I went to the
Web site and didn’t see any mention of a plastic Romany.
BTW, They say that “woven mat and chop strand mat” are used in both the deck and hull.
Bob
Spring '08
They are coming to a dealer near you. Or at least a dealer that can ship them to you.
Brits and web sites
Terrible on currency usually. Maybe because they have less bandwidth over there so they assume no one is looking. But it has been promised. Based on the Surf Romany more than the regular if I recall.
Hopefully soon
Ed from the Virginia Sea Kayak Center is at the NDK Dealer meet in Wales this week and will hopefully return with info on the newest Romany.
We hope to have an update soon (as well as a pre-season order)!
-Tom
Or more likely
These kayak builders are a handful of people that know boats and know composites, spending all their time building composite boats. They have to pay someone to moderate a website which doesn’t help them build boats, just creates more demand for their limited resources.