Or more likely
they a little bit out of touch with the modern world. Somehow the mentality is stuck in the “old boys club” era, everything must be spread through personal contacts and dealers. Well, maybe a couple more decades will take care of it.
Or more likely…
they don’t understand the role of the website and its ability to provide information efficiently to an array of interested people without requiring individual attention and the overhead of printing, smail, etc…
Once up, a website usually requires minimal time and expertise to up date. It is also the means by which a majority of clients/customers choose to acquire information.
Yep nermal
A thousand to 1200 boats a year is significant for a manufacturer of composite kayaks. You mentioned financial difficulties earlier on, and thus the new manufacturer which re-inforces my comments about this being a low margin gig. Price is a huge focus for many sea kayakers it seems so all these manufacturers are competing in a limited market in a labor intensive business. The money is in plastic for both the manufacturer and dealers. My guess is NDK would sell more tupperware Romany’s here than composite. For those who love these manufacturers I say be willing to pay, and don’t always look for “the deal”. Your deal is money out of their, or the specialty dealers pocket, and ultimately that hurts quality and viability long term. Just my opinion.
Good information
These kayak manufacturers are not exactly like GM or Toyota. You have people following their dreams in many cases on shoe string budgets. They have a design and a passion for something: a fiberglass person, some investors and a warehouse turned into a factory. They hire untrained help who get a crash course in some skills and they are in business. They make fiberglass kayaks that sell for for $3200. and make a profit of $500 - 700. I actually can’t believe that they can make one and ship it for that little money. The same guy who is running to the post office is spraying gel coat two hours later.
Ever go into a boating store and look at a stupid fiberglass dinghy? Up to $4500. I’m totally amaized that fiberglass kayaks with seats, rudders, bulkheads and accessories don’t cost around $5000. Believe me , I’m not on any manufacturers payroll or rich, but having built kayaks I know how difficult and time consuming it is.
Who would be willing to pay for the flawless, high end version of any manufacturers kayak for $1000. more? Nobody
Gel coat cracks
– Last Updated: Sep-27-07 10:34 AM EST –
Pick either A or B
(A) Do you want it light or (B) a perfect gel coat.
Truck cabs get almost no gel coat cracks. The underlying problem with gel coat is that it's being used on a flexable surface. Even kevlar boats flex. If you coated a 200 lb slab of fiberglass there would not be gel coat cracks. But since manufacturers are trying to keep kayaks light they have to go thin, and thin flexes. Unfortunately to get a hard abrasion resistant coating, gel coat is fairly brittle. Manufacturers of gel coat resins have been working on the flexability issue for years. They can make it rubbery, but it would not be abrasion resistant. So that's the delema that is the basis of gel coat problems.
They could spray a kayak with Imron and it would look beautiful. But then the coating would be microns thin and wear off the boat the first time you dragged it up a sandy beach.
On my beat up Kevlar Necky Arluk 3 the gel coat was falling off in pieces. I think all the manufacturers have improved enormously with the gel coat applications and newer chemistry.
I actually can’t believe that they can…
“I actually can’t believe that they can make one and ship it for that little money.”
Thank you Jay. I am amazed that these boats can be handmade, shipped across the sea, and sold here for only a bit over $3000 each! And each one may be used for a decade or more!
I believe $3200 is cheap for a handmade British sea kayak. It amazes me that any one earns a living making and selling these objects so reasonably.
Dirty little secret
– Last Updated: Sep-27-07 1:03 PM EST –
I got an imperfect boat from Seaward, but this was very minor and one call to them, $5 in materials and 10 minutes of my time and now, as far as I can tell, it's perfect. (Celia, it's a Foster boat with a glass seat;-)
Jay, Love your comments. I absolutely hate feeling like I got a "bad deal," so I've been known to shop around. BUT, when push comes to shove, I will gladly fork over premium money as an investment in small, local businesspeople, and craftspeople.
We all should realize that part of the price of our equipment goes to paying for qualified customer service and convenience. Just think of your local hardware store (if you still have one) vs. the big boxes. I feel privileged to pay the premium on their products to support the customer service and convenience I get at my local hardware, ag. supply, and paddlesports stores (Wilhelms Hardware in Hershey, Umberger's of Fontana and Blue Mountain Outfitters in Marysville)
And yes, I know that sometimes small and local don't always equate with good service and I have met some great and very helpful associates at the big boxes.
They probably can’t
I think, for Valley anyway, the composite boats are serving somewhat as advertising media. I saw a bunch of newish ones on the river Saturday, sporting “Valley” on the midship flanks in really big bold letters. Once you get in the store you’ll probably buy a plastic one they can make some money on.
Mike
great post jay
You and salty are really on target here. Thanks.
But the
Surf Romany is just a new name for a LV Romany. The lower deck and smaller cockpit coaming make it difficult for me to enter. 
Gotta ask…
You retired or work on the road? I looked at your profile - looks like the latest ad series for Verizon.
Thanks for the comment re your boat, though my first thought was which Foster boat? They come out looking sooo sleek. The fix sounds like it was minimal, always a nice result if it has to be.
Love the Legend
– Last Updated: Sep-27-07 8:14 PM EST –
Nowhere near retirement.
Lucky enough to travel on vacations and have family spread around the country.
Boat is a Seaward Foster Legend. I absolutely love it. I absolutely don't hold the minor quirk against them.. As amentioned in the above posts, I thought I got way more than fair value in the deal.
Romany Surf is not LV but HV
The Romany Surf replaces the Romany HV. The image for the Romany Surf on the NDK site (i.e. Sea Kayaking UK)is of a Romany HV.
Ciro says he can see no difference between a Romany Surf and a Romany HV. Tom Bergh says the Romany Surf has slightly harder chines.
Even Kevlar boats flex?
Of course they do! Kevlar is weak in compression and makes for not as stiff a boat as glass, carbon etc. That is why your Arluk III Kevlar had a half round wood stiffener down the keel, and carbon stiffeners!
Perhaps the most mis-understood material in this crowd is Kevlar 49… It is NOT stiff stuff, quite the contrary. It is strong in “tension”, NOT compression.
oops
Did I say LV?? 
Never Mind
Regarding Chathams…
– Last Updated: Sep-29-07 12:59 AM EST –
I'd agree that they use a rather sophisticated layup regime; closest to aircraft construction (light yet very strong) that I've encountered. Intelligent engineering. That said, my Valley boats feel very solid, yet not overly heavy. I'd say my Chatham 18 is about 4#-5# lighter than a new Nordy.
Explorer Fan
– Last Updated: Sep-29-07 3:59 PM EST –
While a little late in the discussion, I wanted to add a two thumbs up for the Explorer, standard version. I bought my boat in Jan, 07 and have about 30 days paddling time. I've had absolutely no problems. The manufacture and finish were perfect. So far, nothing has broken, no spider cracks, the hatches stay dry and it paddles like a dream.
Before I bought the boat, I emailed Nigel Dennis regarding my interest in getting a kevlar boat. He had a compelling argument for glass, including strength and a better foundation for the gel coat. My experience bears out his comments. (While rushing to get on the water recently, I accidentally dropped the front end of my boat off of the roof rack, while the stern was on the ground. No damage. Very tough!)
On QA, I bought my boat at SKG. We went over every inch of the boat before I accepted delivery and found no flaws. Buying from a large dealer with very experienced people is the ultimate safeguard.