We’re considering the Necky Nootka+ tandem kayak in the carbon layup. I’ve heard some good things about Necky’s carbon infusion technology, but to stay away from anyone else’s carbon. I’d like to hear from anyone with experience with Necky’s carbon kayaks, especially in a tandem. Generally carbon is brittle, so we need to know if it’s a concern with the Necky technology or not. Thanks!
Infusion is good if done right
Infusion is a refinement of vacuum bagging. It helps to reduce any voids and can result in a very even very strong hull with little excess resin. But the nozzles and execution as in any process must be done well. I am famiiar witht he Impex infusion process and find that it works very well. Don’t know specifically about Necky, sorry.
it’s good, with caveats
The fashion and marketing of toys can lend to a bunch of interesting goals and information for what’s NEW AND IMPROVED.
My sense is that Necky is paring down the multiple options that were available in the three categories of lay-ups that every manufactuer was offering.
So they’ve gone straight to the best technology for controlled resin/glass ratios with the manufacturing process designed by the same folks who do moldings for the airline industry and offering two choices.
In the two option choices with this molding technology they’re going for max durability/weight instead of the extremes of light weight with carbon. Which I think is great, especially for general use non-racing sea kayaks.
There’s some anomalous issues regarding the gel coat chipping that I would ask about. I’ve got a Chatham18 in glass. In the big picture it’s pretty minor but another Chatham owner has mentioned gel coat chipping off and cracks in the gel coat near the skeg box.
It’s not a structural issue but for the price of a top notch high end construction the gel coat needs to be less brittle and a couple extra pieces of glass or core reinforcement need to be located in the skeg box area of my Chatham 18. The big double may not have that specific issue but the brittleness of the gel coat and ease that it popped away from the underlying glass isn’t acceptable for such a high end boat,especially a pricey double.
If I had the money and wanted a well made big/fast double I’d feel confident getting that one in carbon.
Whoever is telling you to stay away from anyone elses carbon is full of it. That’s like the local grocer telling you to stay away from anyone elses Pippin apples when you’re making an apple pie. Pure balderdash.
VCP and P&H
make some of the best carbon/kevlar layups in the business. just to name two. stay away from other manufacturers carbon layups? bull----
Thanks for saying that guys.
we must persevere
but speaking of doubles is yours off the drawing board? Personally I’d trade s-glass/resin and paint for gel coat.
What I was told is that Necky’s carbon infusion production system is more technologically advanced than the other makers & it’s more durable/less brittle. The person that told me this is in the rental business & said that they’ve broken up more carbon boats than any other material, yet he would buy Necky’s carbon boats because he knows how they are constructed.
From what I have heard, Necky has recently switched manufacturers for their composites. They switched, from what I understand, from an aerospace oriented manufacturer to a marine oriented manufacturer in an attempt to eliminate the issues with gelcoat, etc.
Somebody RENTS carbon boats?
Just curious, where (roughly) do you live?
Do they also SELL carbon boats? If so, that may be why they’re telling you to stay away from other manufacturers - eliminate the competition.
I have an Eddyline carbonlite kayak, and love it. I was told they get brittle “when cold”. I asked how cold, and was told “below freezing”. Well, I figure if it’s below freezing, I’m not going to be paddling anyway.
actually Necky eliminated kevlar as a building material and is using a glass/carbon/core material for upscale alternative to glass, it costs the same as the former kevlar boats, and weighs about the same as the older kevlar boats. The comparison between a new Necky “AC” carbon boat and other ultralight carbon boats is an apples/oranges comparison because they are heavier than ultra-light carbon boats that are more brittle.
I thought it was the other way around
Going from sea kayak/marine construction using different weaves, roving, and various reinforcing strips/patches and going to an aerospace manufacturer where kevlar laminates don’t have the same historical use and carbon laminates do. There is a problem with the gel coats on a few Chathams,one fellow on this board mentioned it with his Chatham and I can see it on the bow of my Chatham 18 where a patch of gel coat is ‘zippered’ right off. This is a totally seperate issue than the construction method or laminate schedule.
One of the things folks don’t realize is that there’s a range of types of materials used in composites. A “fiberglass” kayak can have a wide range of different kinds of fiberglass. It could be heavy roving or lighter glass with a core material. Both would be “fiberglass kayaks” but the materials would have different characteristics. In the case of Neckys AC carbon laminate it also has glass and core material,if it was all carbon it could weight very little or a lot,but it would be more expensive than they are selling it for.
I hope they got the gel coat/glass bond figured out because it shouldn’t pop-off like that. On my 12 yr old Mariner there’s areas where the gel coat isn’t thick but impacts would go through the gel coat and score the glass,the gel coats was only removed by abrasion. On my 9month old Chatham there’s a couple places where the gel coat is chipped right off leaving a clean layer of glass outside the direct area of impact.
" One of the things folks don’t realize is that there’s a range of types of materials used in composites."
My pre-Johnson Necky kevlar is actually kevlar/carbon cloth. Tan and black stripes from the inside. For stiffness, it also includes a glassed in piece along the keel line of the ultimate composite material – wood.
There’s lots of room to use different materials to meet the design goals. Sort of like blending grapes for wine.
If people would get over the “need” for
gelcoat, they wouldn’t be unhappy later on when the gelcoat cracks, pops off, wears through, etc.
Women with really fine skin don’t wear thick makeup.
about the best post you’ve ever done.
niceG2d… I have both in my life : )
I did a couple as one offs back in the
ester days. A 23" X 19' and a 21" X 24' 9"just to see what would happen... basically stretched my current boats for fun. Would love to do a 'real' one, just not enough time in the year.
Beside all the other flaking gelcoat possiblities that are in the achives.... the infusion process leaves alot of room for real voids to happen.... and once again it comes down to humans not paying enough attention.... The 'points' on the boats are really open for this type of thing to happen. Sometimes the smaller stuff is harder than the people operating the equipment have the patience or knowlege to deal with.
I have to say it looks neat,but like any other process that involves detail work or is ‘new’ there’s a learning curve and opportunity for variation. I cut the forward bulkhead out as it’s so far forward there’s an extra cubic foot in the cockpit I don’t need,the bulkhead looks like two light layers of cloth with that pentagon shaped core material. Solid and light. The weird part is the free floating 1 1/4" glass flange that comes off the deck which acts as a guide for the glued on deck/hull seam. I’m awfully tempted to inject epoxy in that space(can fit a hack saw blade into) even though Necky says the plexus adhesive and mating surfaces are more than sufficient.
QCC kevlar carbon layup
QCC is a little different they have glass and kevlar outside and full carbon inside for stiffness. It almost like two hulls don’t know if thats a good idear or not. Like to get some thoughts on that layup?
We do that on ours… just to further
seal things up because the other process is sort of ‘blind’. From the outside though and this makes a nice neat ‘pinstripe’ seam line that needs no post finishing or banding for cosmetics.