positive or negative reinforcement?
Some feel success breeds success. Some feel otherwise.
Romanys and Explorers are often used as schooling platforms by those who believe in positive reinforcement. It does not make them lesser boats - they’ve been used for some of the most demanding kayaking.
I suppose Rumours could be used as learning platforms for those who feel difficulty is a better incentive.
Enjoy your Chatham 18. It is a good boat. Don’t be concerned if all other paddlers don’t like it as much as you. We’d all be paddling Explorers if we really wanted the most liked boat by experienced paddlers 
Try an Elaho DS…
Eh salty, whose idea was it on the bow
characteristics LeeG speaks of ?
Just like it when I see stuff I have done on the ‘big guys’ boats.
LeeG I know what you are talking about and it works great … sort of dynamic lift that you cannot really feel, but can see happening once up to speed. Cannot tell from website pics but my ( former) 19 had a bunch of this up front and it came about from side by side testing in stupid conditions. Right when you think, there goes the bow … it pops back up and you just keep going on any downwind line you want.
Spike’s designs
Spike is a world caliber paddler, ex Olmpic coach, and champion surf kayaker. He is head designer at Johnson Outdoors and a long time friend. Lots go into his designs that will be missed by many. He’s also a guy who would tell you to buy whatever feels right to you and go use it.
Wilso
Lots of sea kayakers like to subtly put down WW or race paddlers as “not sea kayakers”. Be real, real careful there and do not make assumptions. Justine and I recently discussed this point. We agreed that the finest sea kayakers we’d ever seen came from a competitive slalom background. Slalom boaters are precision paddlers, with exceptional skills. The water doesn’t care! Spikes friend is a case in point. Circumnavigated the Charlottes right out of the gate! These folks know how to paddle any boat in any water. I suspect you’ll see footage of Spike in upcoming material from Justine. Then we’ll have another chat about sea kayakers OK. Your world is just your world…these paddlers operate at another level altogether…you just don’t hear them promoting themselves. I risk the wrath of Spike just posting this, but I think some of the Chatham customers will appreciate knowing who’s behind their boat.
which one is that?
is that the one with the metal skeg dropped off the stern?
my biggest problem
has been a static brace. I sink like a stone! That’s the only skill I’ve found that the Ch18 won’t support. But since that’s the case in any boat I paddle, it’s not really a Ch18 property per se. Or at least I can’t say that it is. Is there anything else when you say “etc”?
rhoran!
You see what a can of worms you have openned!!!
knocked about
I think that’s a consequence of the lack of rocker and full shape to the ends more than chines. A Caribou has chines but there’s something about the rocker that makes one feel like you’re sitting at a low spot. I think the characteristic is common to most straighter keeled boats then gets exacerbated by the flattish bottom. Which on the other hand makes it so secure surfing down a wave for me. I wondered about the Aquanaut.
hmm…
Some “my way or the hiwayers” out there…
sure
I think the Chatham 18 is incredible surfing along wind waves, not the surf zone but in the open bay. Most other boats start to turn/broach or have abrupt changes in their stability with waves right off the stern. The 18 was strange in that it seemed to get more stable as I went faster. Which is a mighty nice learning characteristic since going over is the obvious consequence in making a booboo at higher speeds.
For me that attribute is a real nice one.
well, if wilsoj is right
(a twitchy boat that rolls like a demon), rhoran can have his cake and eat it too! 
That does sound like the V10
Feels a little squirrely with small stuff in the quarters, but add some power and get on the wave and it smooths right out. It’s also a fairly low-rocker design with a flattish run from the cockpit aft.
It ain’t about conditions
It’s about paddlers and what they’re trying to do in conditions. A boat designed for good paddlers to go fast in conditions is going to feel very challenging to less-good paddlers in the same conditions. That isn’t the boat’s fault. OTOH that same boat isn’t going to work very well for hauling a camping load or playing in the surf. Again, not the boat’s fault. Keep it about what works well at doing X for paddler Y in conditions Z and a lot of this “best boat” stuff ought to go away.
Anybody else notice…
That many of the replies on this thread are inserted all over the place? Any way to correct this? TIA.
Anyhow, sorry if I stirred things up a bit around here, but admit that it does tend to bring out the responses. Remember…high blood pressure beats death from boredom.
I spoke with salty a few times back when I was deciding upon buying the CH18. Already had two CH17’s, and was wondering if the 18 was indeed an upgrade, or just a 4" longer Chatham 17. No such thing as a CH18 to demo in my neck of the woods, so I tend to have to buy (gulp) blind.
Anyhow, we also spoke about the infamous Q-boat, NDKs, WS stuff, Night Herons, etc. What impressed me about salty’s responses wasn’t his degree of knowledge (though it is most certainly considerable); rather, it was his candor, his willingness to state that he didn’t have much experience with a particular boat, and his willingnes to recommend several boats from several different makers (just as he does here). Hell, he even had a good thing or two to say about those over-priced, heavy, unchallenging, British boats full of choppped mat. Sorry, there I go again…
It’s really great to be able to glean this much info from you guys. Ford vs. Chevy type debates, while probably close to meaningless, do spark some good conversation. For me, I’m just glad I listened to sage advice. Bottom line, the Chathams are one helluva line of watercraft.
Rolling Chatham 18
Actually, I am the guy who asked the question…only one person responded about the rolling performance of the Chatham 18. Anyone want to comment on that ?
I only have two boats
– Last Updated: May-22-07 7:42 PM EST –
a 23-and-1/2" wide Sirocco and the Chatham.
Rolling the Sirocco is like attempting the avataq isserfiup taqqaanut; those last few inches are like pole vaulting ("Must ... get ... boat ... righted ... ugh!"). A layback roll would break my back.
Rolling the Chatham is no effort at all. "Oooo, look at the pretty clouds. What, am I up already?! Okay, back to work." My back is flat on the deck, like rolling a log.
**********
Edit: I installed the more agressive blue WW thigh braces so my thigh braces and skeg control knob would match. ;-)
Nope - kayaks don’t do the rolling…
… kayakers do.
The comments on deck heights, seat/back band placement relative to coaming, and thigh braces are about all the useful secondhand info likely to be had on this.
If you can roll a sea kayak, you should be able to roll any sea kayak. All of them need outfitting tweaks to optimize/customize, and this is personal and changes everything. One person’s comments on how their CH18 rolls are not likely to be informative as people come in different shapes and sizes and flexibility and skill levels. Comments from a 50/50 onside only one type roller won’t mean much. Neither would those from someone who can do all kinds in just about anything. In-between it’s a crap shoot.
If you want to do a few dozen different Greenland rolls and find commercial boats not cutting it for learning some of them, build a dedicated rolling SOF. Then transfer the rolls to your other kayak(s).
Not putting down anyone
– Last Updated: May-21-07 11:45 PM EST –
Lighten up. I was simply inquiring.
BTW, you are not the ONLY sea kayaker on this board who realizes that highly skilled paddlers of all forms ARE highly skilled paddlers. I haven't started ww and working with ww paddlers because I think it is unrelated to or lesser than sea kayaking
Your friends are great. They design great boats. Not every one of us happens to be in love with every boat your friends design - okay?
"a sweep would break my back"
OK, we need a video here, as you must have a very “unique” sweep roll technique L