My experience
My experience with difficulty with the Chatham 18 was with smoothly sculling down and back and static bracing. I will not speak for the owner’s experience.
Each boat and paddler seems particularly different in this manner. For me my Romany and Elaho DS are easier than my Aquanaut which is easier than the Chatham 18.
yup, original model
The original Elaho was drop skeg, 15’10" and very rockered. It struck me as the first North American sea kayak play boat. Came with Bomber Gear back band, whitewater thigh braces, and a Valley day hatch. The coaming at the rear was lower than the deck, so it is easy to lay flat on the rear deck. I wish my Brit boats had as good of thigh braces and as low of rear deck.
This boat rolls, static braces, etc… even easier than a Romany.
The ruddered versions are longer and less rockered. They are probably better behaved, but also less “playful.”
Yup
– Last Updated: May-22-07 7:36 AM EST –
Chatham 18 is an easy roller.
Twitchy boats that are well fitted to the paddler tend to roll very easily.
Big wide deep boats whose cockpits are not fitted well to the paddler require alot more to roll.
My Romany rolls easier than my Aquanaut. My Elaho DS rolls easier than my Romany. My Pirouette rolls easier than my Inazone. All three of my sea kayaks roll easier than my Inazone.
My friend's Outer Island rolls as if there is no boat - no effort at all.
Despite the current orthodoxy, not all boats roll the same.
I don’t understand "rolling performance"
the action of rolling is pretty much coming up,wider boats are more effort than skinnier boats. er…it rolls.
What do you mean?
What is it you are saying you don’t understand?
Great designs etc…
– Last Updated: May-22-07 9:24 AM EST –
Though I already loved my Elaho DS, when Tom Bergh told me back in 2003 that Necky had been flying he and a number of other experienced paddlers out to the Northwest to demo Chatham prototypes and give feedback, I knew someone at Necky REALLY cared about good design.
I had a fairly extensive email exchange with the designer of the Chatham somewhere back around then, and it reinforced the sense that dedicated paddlers had a lot of weight at Necky.
The Chatham series is the equal of any Brit series in quality of design. The quality of build exceeds most Brits.
What are you using as a benchmark?
That is, what are you used to rolling and what about it do you like or not? As above, the boat rolls fine for the paddler that fits it. But you may be thinking of something you are used to in how a particular boat behaves?
Jeez
C’mon folks, lets be nice eh. Wilso, I enjoy your commentary and in my post somewhere above was just noting how slalom / race / whitewater types make superb sea kayakers. Look at Barton and Chalupsky!! Unbelievable sea kayakers! Kayakers are kayakers…period.
You found a couple of boats that work for you, and that’s all that matters. I don’t like every Necky boat either BTW. Kayaks are just kayaks…that’s where it all starts.
Where are you guys going this year that is amazing? That’s what matters.
We’re all learning
– Last Updated: May-22-07 11:52 AM EST –
We often learn by sharing our experiences and observations. I try not to be 'authoritative' as I am no authority in these matters. All of my posts have an implied, if not stated, IMHO. My questions are rarely sarcastic and are almost always a genuine request for more information. I've benfitted from this board for years and the willingness of those of greater exprience to share.
If you're not learning you're dying.
My recollection is that many of the 'greats' of sea kayaking started out as whitewater or sholom paddlers. Many of the sea kayakers with whom I hang admire and have learned from Eric Jackson. My favorite Euro paddle is my Epic Full Carbon Active Tour, so I've benfitted from Olympic champions.
After being at the Woods Hole tidal race last year and having a fellow paddler note that it he felt it would only be the equivlanet of Class II whitewater, I got it. Doing Mayhem with Maynard last Autumn at Sullivan's Falls reinforced my understanding that doing white water would improve all my paddling.
John Carmody and Steve Maynard strongly urged us to bring our ww boats to the coast of Maine.
So, this summer we are taking our planing hull ww boats as well as our expedition length boats to Maine. We will be there (Mid-Coast)for three weeks and will paddle just about every day. Irony is all 4 of these boats are 'Brit boats' the long boats are Valley and NDK while the ww boats are Pyranha. Our old school ww boats are American ;-)
Where are you guys going this year that
Klemtu
yep
it’s kind of like one person designed the cockpit/deck and another person designed the hull. Everything up top made sense and the kayak was maneuverable. The weird part was that its weathercocking attributes didn’t change with the skeg. Pretty weird consider how far back it was located. With no skeg it was maneuverable and you could correct on every stroke,drop the skeg and it tracked more stiffly but it still weathercocked. I paddled about three miles on relatively flat water with a 15mph beam wind and it was bizarre to deploy the skeg, it was slower to swing up wind but it STILL went upwind and the corrective strokes were less effective as it was tracking more stiffly. It was a bizarre characteristic given the length and position of the skeg. I ended up putting the skeg at a slight deployment and compensating on every stroke. It was not right in that regard.
ill-behaved, but fun!
The boat really does weathercock, pretty much whether the skeg is down or not. I had a few crossings along the coast of Maine in my Elaho that lead me to my Aquanaut.
But the boat is a ball of fun! If it didn’t weigh so much more than my Romany (and if its hatches stayed anywhere near dry)I would use it a lot more than I do.
Klemtu?
Beautiful!
Thanks Greyak.
We’ll be spending our usual 3 weeks of July on Muscongus Bay. This will be our 17th year going to Flood’s Cove. Some friends are coming to visit and paddle while we are there. We’ll be spending a couple of days working with John Carmody while in Friendship.
In June we’ll be attending Vermont BCU Weekend on Champlain and in September the 2nd Annual Downeast Symposium in Bar Harbor.
Other plans are tentative or in process…
it’s a mystery
– Last Updated: May-23-07 2:11 PM EST –
one would think a skeg would pretty much correct things, it's a clue that the whole hull factors into weathercocking and not just whatever tracking aid is tacked on. That boat was the beginning of Necky getting back in the swing of things for sea kayaks beyond the ruddered boats. Took long enough.
You forgot “Gort!”
Reply to dpcdivr on May-21
I agree that a “twitchy” boat should help to improve skills. After a few years in my home built Artic Tern High and Sealution XL I wanted to be challenged to improve rough water skills (I could relax in most conditions in the AT and XL) and to have a tighter fitting and more agile boat.
I bought the C18 in May '06 and like it very much. At 6’5", 215 lbs it fits perfectly and for the first time I feel like the boat is part of me. But in quartering and following seas (Atlantic off the Manasquan Inlet) I had two occasions where I had to execute a combat roll. The twitchyness in these conditions is something that I am working on and hope that I will soon feel more comfortable as my rough water skill level improves. Overall I am very pleased with this boat and feel that it is making me a better paddler.
Len
Gort…
I’ve got a boat-load of silver spray paint…
Surf ski comparison?
I’m dragging up this old thread with hopes to get a few answers.
I’m interested in the Chatham18 for Ultra long distance adventure racing such as the MR340 and the Watertribe races like the 300 mile Everglades Challenge, the 370 mile Cross Florida Challenge, and the 1200 mile Ultimate Florida Challenge.
Without knowing just what kind of paddler each of you are, your comments don’t really relay info I can really use.
I just traded my Fenn Mako XT surfski 19’ x 19" for a Current Designs “Extreme” 18’10" x 21.5" . I would have gladly kept the ski but that wasn’t in the budget.
stability: what one thinks is tippy is nothing compared to someone used to a surfski. my cd extreme I can fall asleep in, but it’s not as fast as the ski, but it has hatches for gear. For my upcoming events I need storage and speed.
What I need to know about is speed! How does this compare against say the epic 18 boats and things similar? I haven’t heard of the Chatham 18 used in other races? The NY Mayor’s Cup? and other events of the such?
How does the Chatham18 compare to the CD extreme?
my specs: 165 lbs at 5’3" and pretty good shape.
I’ve paddled a couple of Adirondack Canoe Classics,
and paddled the length of the Texas Coast in May 2010 (400 miles),
along with all my training sessions which are pretty adventurous.
My home is south padre island, texas and the Laguna Madre and Gulf of Mexico are right in my backyard, sometimes I can even paddle out from my garage!