can change that dramatically
That is so true.
For me the three Chathams feel like very different boats - the 16 a playboat like a fine tuned Romany, the 17 a solid reassuring all round boat like an Explorer and the 18 a traveling boat which is less reassuring than the other two but covers distances very well. The 18 does not remind me of any other boat I’ve paddled.
I am not as confident, skilled, or experienced as the designers of the boats.
speed
– Last Updated: Feb-07-09 7:26 AM EST –
Compared to even the Romany, I thought the Chatham 16 was among the slowest of the 16 footers in flat water. I thought some reviews indicated that the 16 is so much a rough water playboat and so slow on calm water, that it almost is a niche boat rather than an all round day boat. Perhaps great if one lives or frequents the coast. But for inland waters based on this, I did not even have this one on my list to test paddle when comparing the Romany, Avocet, and Montauk.
Perception of speed
Though even the Sea Kayaker review conveyed the sense that the Chatham 16 is slower than most in its cohort, the drag stats show that the difference between an Avocet and a Chatham 16 at 3 knots (often cited usual cruising speed) is one hundredth of a pound (1.92 for Avocet, 1.93 for Chatham 16).
I am not saying that one may not feel the Chatham 16 ‘slow’ on flat water, but by objective measures available one should not eliminate it from consideration.
I first thought an Avocet felt slow when demoing boats in 2003. Now I don’t mind paddling my Romany (probably ‘slower’ than an Avocet on flat water) for most purposes. Though for the rush of liveliness and quickness, nothing I own beats my Nordkapp LV 
things happen after 3mph
that curling bow wave starts looking like a tug boat as you paddler faster, which is what makes it so much fun going down waves as the bow gets dynamic support without burying.
3 knots = 3.45mph, 3mph = 2.6 knots
– Last Updated: Feb-07-09 4:16 PM EST –
And running down waves is well within the design intent of the Chatham 16.
However, for Martin paddling inland waters, when one pushes a 16ft playboat on flat water the bow wake builds and it can be a bitch -I've encountered this in both my Romany and Elaho DS..
If one wants a boat to paddle fast on the flat, the Chatham 16 nor Romany nor Avocet is the boat.
So much crap
Yea Lee, that high volume bow is what works SO well in big water.
You folks have to understand that a lot of nonsense gets tossed about. Sometimes by competitors. You also need to understand that Sea Kayaker for whom I once tested boats NEVER took the CH16 out in the conditions for which it was designed! Like testing a Jeep Rubicon on the highway.
The 'real" difference in drag among these boats in that class is essentially NULL.
And in huge conditions the 16 shines. Anyone who makes ‘speed’ an issue with these boats just doesn’t understand and it is surely NOT the boat for them.
really?,never reviewed in conditions?
sounds like a kayak kit company I worked for. The funny part about the Chathams is that it doesn’t feel like the bows are high volume as much as they get support when moving. That’s what I mean by that tugboat bow wave on flat water while paddling hard.
Maybe I got it wrong and I’m describing a high volume bow but the Express I had sure looked like it had a high volume bow but maybe it had a high windage bow and the Chathams lower windage give’s the impression of not being as high volume,it’s what’s in the water that matters anyway.
I haven’t had the Chatham out in rough conditions, hell I haven’t been out in rough conditions for years but I did have it out in 2’ waves which is enough to surf in and both the Chatham 16 and 18 got more secure going down waves, the Express was secure and maneuverable in all kinds of conflicted stuff but when it came to surfing along down wave it wasn’t as secure feeling as the Chatham.
No
Read the testers conditions and the most the boat ever saw was light to moderate chop. It’s a coastal touring boat!
You’re getting it with the bow design… The 17 is the mass market boat. It’s satble, super tracky, and makes people think it’s fast…
Design Intent from Necky
– Last Updated: Feb-09-09 5:07 PM EST –
Though the info available from the manufacturers is filtered through the marketing department, sometimes there is still a shred of useful information about the personality of the boats at hand. Here are Necky's descriptions of the Chathams:
Chatham 16: An ideal coastal explorer with great maneuverability and superb rough water performance. Full-chined hull provides great stability and quick response to edging and lean turns.
Chatham 17: Built to minimize windage, with great maneuverability and superb rough water performance. Excels at navigating surf zones, rock gardens and convoluted "tide rips." Very full chine provides great stability and quick response to edging and lean turns.
Chatham 18: An extremely capable "passage-maker" with good turn of speed, great sea-worthiness and surprising stability for such a slender craft. Though somewhat stiffer tracking and a little less maneuverable than its shorter siblings, the 18 is still very nimble.
In this case these descriptions don't read as radically different from paddlers' expressed experiences or (with one notable exception) that of one very close to the boats' origins ;-)
Marketing…
The 16 has the most full cross section. The 17 has as much waterline as the 18 and is tighter tracking. The 18 carries volume further in the chines and has less V. Very playful on edge.
BUT, the mass market will be more comfy in the 17 thus it will “appear” to the masses to be more maneuverable. Paddler weight and style make a huge difference.
Perceptiom IS reality. The 18 is not a mass market kayak. Most people will like the 17 best and sales numbers agree.
Be wary of what you read on web sites and reviews. In the end these are all fine boats and it always comes down to the individual.
Thanks…
for summing this up, Salty. I’ll heed your advice.
I plan to try out the Chatham 18 and 17 at my next opportunity.
Let us know what you think.
Try to get both in some bigger conditions.
Y’know…
Discussions like these would go more smoothly if the manufacturer’s website said more things that matched up with statements from the designer or similar background folks. “Stiffer tracking” definately does not conjure up “very playful on edge” to me.
Different hull on keel vs on chine
Keel down they track, put 'em on edge the waterline shortens and rocker increases. Otherwise, not much point in edging, right? Makes sense to me.
Key to its surprisingly primary?
– Last Updated: Feb-10-09 7:37 AM EST –
"The 18 carries volume further in the chines and has less V."
The 18 feels to have higher primary than I would expect given its 20" beam. I've always guessed it was the boxiness of its hull profile - flat bottom with slab sides at midship. I've learned from earlier posts that how far forward and aft the volume is carried also affects felt stability.
However, to me, the 18 seems to get knocked about a bit more in clapitos than the 16 or my Romany or my Nordlow. Might the boxiness etc... contribute to that trait as well?
Trade-off’s
First of all let’s recognize marketing for what it is.
Secondly, every boat is different and is a compromise of traits. Add to that human variance in perception and skill and it becomes impossible to say how “you” will like a given boat.
And it seems folk also assume that if they don’t do so well in a boat that it must be the boat… Maybe the boat is not a good match for them and a de-tuned version would actually be better, and even seem higher performance to them.
If we placed some here in a HP surf boat for example they’d likely be way out of their comfort zone and out of control. Does that mean the boat isn’t great? Same holds for touring kayaks albeit to a lesser extent.
Nord LV is a great boat for example, but probably not for the masses either.
Nord LV is a great boat, but…
– Last Updated: Feb-10-09 7:10 PM EST –
IMHO. a very good example. I know of 2 or 3 paddlers who sold off their Nordlows as being too demanding in conditions.
I have a friend who has a Chatham 18. As her skills have deepened so has her appreciation of the boat.
My skill and confidence are sometimes overwhelmed by my Nordlow in challenging conditions. However, I hope to improve my skills and confidence to the point that I can fully enjoy the boat's capabilities.
Fortunately it is not my only boat. This summer I brought both my Nordlow and Romany for a month of paddling most days on the Maine coast. Both were great to have and there were days when the Romany was a welcome respite ;-)
Often the case it seems
"Read the testers conditions and the most the boat ever saw was light to moderate chop."
When I look at a review there, the description of what it was paddled in and if cargo was carried are the first things I check. Its amazing how often the boats are tested unladen and in modest if not benign conditions. Not knocking the reviews. Just need to understand what they are telling you and what they cannot tell you.
“It’s a coastal touring boat!”
I notice the Brits refer to some boats as coastal touring boats and they tend to think of them as boats for say weekend/week long touring trips. I think SK did say the CH16 had room for a week long tour to give credit where due.
In the US it seems we relegate such boats to be “day/play” boats and only consider what the Brits would call expedition boats to be touring/camping boats. Maybe its all the stuff Americans tend/need to carry while camping due to LNT and need for fresh water. Still, seems to me a case can be made its more fun going out for a long weekend in a small, fun boat as opposed to a boat made for getting from headland to headland and big crossings.
Amen eel
Norkapp LV
I think it’s the greatest, but too new to be affordable(for me.) A friend had one, and I really liked it. Until then, I will be happy with my Foster Legend. The Chatam 18 looks like my next kayak. As soon as my wife okays the purchase! She loves her poly 17, so how can she refuse me! Ken…