Go some place amazing
in whatever kayaks you have. That is what matters…listen to me…I know.
Chatham 18 & S&G Night Heron
All,
Your comments were very informative. I still have some questions about specifications and Night Heron comparison… I am 6’3" 215lbs with 12 feet. I was looking at the hybrid high deck night heron. I really do not have the time to build a boat this year. I was able to demo the S&G and strip HD Night Heron in mild conditions. I found it nimble, stable, and faster (I want one ;-)) The Night Heron easily held a 5.5mph pace. I plan to do a few 15-25 mile paddles in the Chesapeake Bay. I was wondering how the Night Heron and Chatham 18 compared? Where can I find the following Chatham 18 information: paddler weight, total weight, cockpit depth, and new facility build date? for the Chatham 18? Thanks.
Jim Z
Own both the CH18 and NH
Still need to gain time in bigger conditions with the NH to be able to comment in that area, but in relatively benigh conditions, I think the NH feel to have a wee bit stronger primary. Both feel to have excellent secondary to me. Speed seems quite similar. The NH is ever so slightly more maneuverable than the CH until you get them both way up on edge, at which point the CH comes alive, and may actually have a very slight edge over the NH. Both are awesome boats!
Also, FWIW, I also own the CH17. Nice boat, but tends to spend a lot of time on the rack these days…(a bit boring, compared to the other two)
dpcdivr CH18 & NH
Dpcdivr,
Some more info: I’m 6’3", 215lbs, 12feet, 36 waist, and carry some weight in my sholders (high CG).I have been paddling for 5 years. I retired from golf in my old age and took up paddling.
Thanks for the NH & CH18 comparison dpcdivr. I was able to quick demo a CH18 yesterday. The fit and comfort was the best of any boat I have been in which include Impex, P&H, CD, Perception, Prijon, CLC, QCC, and eddyline. I own Prijon, Eddyline, P&H, and Old Town. The demo was short because I had to crack through the ice to get to open water. I was wearing a dry suit which inhibits the rotation a bit in kayaks. The C18 primary was a touch less than the NH. I was not able to reach more than 5mph in the C18. It was shallow water. The NH fall demo topped out at 7mph, 5.5mph brisk, 4.5mph touring speeds. The C18 topped out at 5.2mph, 4.5mph brisk, and 3.8mph touring in the winter demo. The primary was good and the secondary was excellent and really kicked in on its edge. I wish I could test the boats side by side. The C18 is a beautiful comfortable boat.
Jim Z
Jim
– Last Updated: Feb-23-09 11:47 AM EST –
Jim,
Since I saw you paddling my Extreme and bring it up to a respectable speed, I'm wondering if there was something interfereing with your paddling the Chatham 18 to only get it up to 5.2 mph top speed. Could it be the shallow and cold (more viscous) water?
I can achieve just a hair faster top speed in my Extreme than what you did in it this Saturday and I used a wing paddle for that and it has some advantages for raw power compared to what you used.
But I can also bring my plastic Tempest 170 and my 13.5 feet long Perception Sonoma to 6+ mph for a very short distance with either the wing or the greenland paddle or with the Werner Ikelos that I briefly tested last year.
I am suspicious that the 18 foot Chatham has lower top speed for you than the 13.5 Sonoma or the Tempest 170 have for me...
On a separate note, I'd be interested in your observation on the Chatham 18 stability vs. the Extreme.
Thanks and good luck in test-paddling. The NH looks great and CLC used to have the HV model on the floor not too long ago - give them a call if that boat is of interest to you.
C18 Speed
Mike,
Thanks for the input and demo of your CD Extreme. I had high hopes for the Extreme as a fast touring boat and rocket to keep up with the faster crew… I have tried CDs in the past. They either make a bathtub or peep hole for a cockpit in general. I am not a purist and want a kayak I can get in and out easily. I wish I could make the CD management team understand a real key hole cockpit is a good thing (unless a race yak) and 3/4" does not make a kayak high volume. I could only get my thighs partially under the deck under pain management. I did notice the Extreme bow caught a gust of wind on top of a wave and woke me up…
Necky makes no claims to speed. Though it probably is a great big water boat. It fit well also. I was trying to be fair about the conditions when paddling the C18, NH, Eddyline Fathom, and P&H Quest. The newness and restraint of the dry suit and shallow water contributed to the C18 slower speed. This does not mean in the context of kayaks the C18 is slow. I also noted the C18 put up a nice bow wake at the top end speed. I see a bow wake with my Prijon Touryak, which I use as a comfortable camping river boat.
The C18 initial stability is slightly better than the Extreme. The secondary stabilities are different. The Extreme has a steady secondary while the C18 starts off easy and kicks in hard. I do believe this makes the C18 much more maneuverable and better in chaotic conditions.
I have a solution for your feet. Buy a pair of the of deck plates with socks. Install the deck plates above the foot braces. Remove the deck plates before paddling and let the flappers breath. You will have to put the rudder down so you don’t Lee cock… Just joking. Being way out side of the paddling bell curve is tough.
Jim
I’ve had a C17 and 18
– Last Updated: Feb-24-09 3:40 PM EST –
and find them to be the most comfortable boats I've ever paddled
Chatham 18
I find it surprising that the Chatham 18 is considered by many to be a fast boat. I found it to hit a wall very quickly. During a quick demo I was keeping up with someone in a Viviane, he was not working hard and I was leaving a wake that someone could have surfed on. The Viviane had no bow wave or wake.
Just by looking at the shape
of the hull on the Chatham 18 it seems it’s got rocker and flat bottom and chubby front and back that are not particularly helping once it reaches certain speed. Would work nicely in conditions I suppose but fast it can’t be. In contrast the Viviane is one of the fastest sea kayaks available, unless you go to something like KyakPro or Epic.
The 18
From my perspective the 18 is, as some have alluded, a superb rough-sea kayak. It was designed as a “efficient distance rough sea touring kayak”, and it is all of that. It is not going to be as fast as a Viviane or Epic, but in ten foot seas you may “net” better results. The very things that can detract at speed in calm seas are outstanding in big chaotic seas.
The problem with being very definitive about any boat is the reality of subjectivity. There are a few ex Olympian types in BC who find the C18 to be their by-far favorite rough sea kayak…but that is also very subjective. It, like all kayaks is a blend of compromises so once again comparisons are personal. Comments are great but in the end ya just have to get what works for you. My guess is Bowrudder’s build makes the 17 the better choice for him, yet I know guys as big who love the 18 far more. Who’s right??
There is no right other than there are many fine kayaks out there.
Get boat and go… Whatever you buy you’ll find seas that it excels in and certain conditions it’s limited in…regardless of what a catalogue tells ya.
The mistake in well meant advice is that we speak from “our” perspective. I made that mistake with bowrudder some time back when I told him I thought the 18 was far more fun than the 17, which “for me” is absolutely the case. Turns out it was not so for him, and congrats to him for listening to himself. Either boat will take him anywhere he needs to go, and the 17 was his choice.
Safe paddling!
Choosing Kayak Journey
I have learned a lot about yaks reading this forum and others. My kayaking journey has been fun learning new skills and information on kayaking. The reviewer must objectively define their goals and review them with experienced people. This will provide growth for the paddler and keep the manufacturers informed of their products. Reviews that contain the paddler’s size and skill really help. I was knowingly looking for a faster rough water kayak which at some point oppose each other.
I have a Eddyline Phoenix for swim support, twisty river , and general paddling. The speed of the boat is ok. The reviews were questionable. Sure it weather cocked, just drop the skeg. The secondary stability is outstanding when you have 2 swimmers holding on the boat in bucking seas. I took out the seat in my Quest to lower my CG and it worked great. I thought I needed some extra padding under my seat for a long paddle. Whoops…; 1/2 in of foam and no secondary in rough conditions.
Thanks for the thoughtful opinions which help all in their decision making.
Jim
so are the newer Johnson Chatham 18s the best-built ones you are referring to? the last inventory when they went out of business were the thai built boats???
@Diab the last post on this thread was 15 years ago… not sure you’ll get a response at this point!
1 Like
could you specify what you mean about blown out inventory from old town? are those the the Thai-built boats? You said the new Chathams were the best strongest ones ever but then say the new last ones blown out by old town arent the best. which is it. thanks