I'd get the Tuff Weave for the use you described. It costs no more than the Royalex.
As far as weight, Wenonah's basic market niche is fast, lightweight canoes. My opinion is that they are not overly optimistic on their published weights.
I wouldn't transfer a lot of the discussion about some manufacturers published weights over to other manufacturers.
Had to update this post to add a caveat, as plaidpaddler said, forget the $650 price cap unless you have one of the following:
a) a lot of time
b) a fair bit of luck
c) a willingness to compromise on the hull you buy so as to avoid the need for a or b.
Bought my … Spirit II off of Clarion (above poster) and love it. My wife really likes the bow sliding seat so she can adjust it to where she wants. We’ve paddled lakes in 2005 and are gearing up for some river runs this year. It’s Royalex. I can load it myself onto our minivan. It’s a bit harder by yourself ONLY because we haven’t gotten a roof rack yet. (This spring) Hope you find what you’re looking for. Also check this web sites classified ads. That’s where I found ours.
Aluminum I may be somewhat of a dinosaur, but I like the aluminum canoe as a beginner’s entry level canoe - especialy for families. They need no upkeep and there are no storage concerns.
They tend to be fairly lightweight (75# or a little more). They last forever and can become a family heirloom that is passed down through the generations. Your two-year old may take his two-year old out in it one day.
Someday you might want to upgrade to a “better” canoe, but many people don’t feeling that the old aluminum serves their needs fine. Or they get a new one but hang on to the aluminum to use as a loaner or just because it has become family.
The ones I know of are wide and stable and are the perfect family canoe.
You probably want a 17 footer. You can buy a brand new Alumacraft Quetico 17 for a little over $700. A brand new Grumman 17 is perhaps $850. However, used ones can be found for $350 - $500.
We had an Alumacraft 17 growing up. It was a canoe camping boat, fishing boat, swimming raft, etc. Did it all. That was the early 1960s. My brother owns it now.
My sister and her family wanted a canoe. I helped her select one - a 17 foot Sears aluminum canoe - $350. It has worked very well for them. It is stored in their backyard, chained to their chain-link fence.
Think Used… …and your budget becomes much more realistic.
Check the p.net classified section, your local paper, the BBs of any area paddling clubs, the local Buy&Sell, mention that you are looking to friends and co-workers…cast you net as widely as possible, keep looking, keep some cash readily available, and you should be able to hit something that’ll suit your needs.
Our Oneida 18, bought from a friend who’d “gone Kavlar”, cost us $350 Cdn. Our BlueWater 16’ Prospector, in Kevlar, cost us $800 brand new - an insurance job, topsides badly scratched in shipping, but we can live with that for the $1600 Cdn saved. Takes patience and a willingness to compromise to some degree re your ‘ideal’ canoe - but you can always pick up a really cheap “hey, it floats…” boat to play with while you lay back in the weeds waiting for the right deal - then resell the flaoter…
I remember Wenonah bragging that their weights are stated conservatively, so that no customer is going to have a big overage.
I agree that I would prefer the Tuff Weave, but an old Paddler magazine test of the ABS versus Kevlar found that the ABS was significantly more maneuverable, but tracked about as well.
family canoe Best to buy used, what you see is what you get. Old Town discovery or Penobscot or Mad River Malecite or Explorer. Wenonah sundowner.
Do not believe 75# lbs is light. The lighter the better or the boat will sit and rarely be used. Do not buy a 95# canoe. Your quality family time is worth what it takes to get a useful boat whether it be a pram or a canoe. 16’ minimum, 4 is a crowd in a canoe unless your children promise not to age. Sundowner would be a great choice.
Stability is subjective. Canoes are “tippy”. My fiberglass MR Malecite at 63# holds my 2 teen daughters and 90# coon hound with both paws on the gunnel. First thing to do when you get the boat is to flip it over on the water to get a feel for the hulls inherent stability.
Should I be so concerned about weight? Should I be so concerned about weight? Or, put another way, I really don’t mind 10 or 15 minutes of inconvenience if it means a good day on the water with my family. My question, though, is if I buy a 75 or 85 pound canoe, will I be physically able to manage loading and unloading? I’m 5’10" and 185 and reasonably strong, I suppose. I mean I’m no powerlifter, but… So, for those of you with much more experience, what do you think? Are we talking about inconvenience or torture/impossibility? For example, I can buy an Old Town Charles River, 16’ in Polylink 3 that (according to OT) weighs 85 pounds for $600 at Dick’s Sporting Goods. Or, if I have to have that same canoe 20 pounds lighter in Royalex, I think it ends up costing me about $1000 or so. Will that 20 or 22 pounds make that much difference in loading/unloading? What about noticeable maneuverability differences to a novice like me? Any?
How high is your Vehicle? If it is the height of a conventional minivan, I'd say you would not load it more than a couple of times.
Are you going to get aftermarket roof racks? The bars extending out past the roof line makes loading a lot easier. You also don't beat your car up with the loading and unloading.
Basically though, I'd say you will not "want" to load it up and take it out very much. 85 pounds is a lot to load by yourself. Having extension racks and a low vehicle would help, but it would still be a chore.
I have a Toyota Tacoma 4-door pickup. It’s probably best described as one of the bigger “small” trucks. I guess I’m figuring on doing a two-stage load. Get it partially into the bed, climb into the bed myself, and then lift it the rest of the way.
He has a home made wooden rack that he uses to haul it. He comes at it from the rear, gets the bow up on the rack and then pushes the canoe forward.
I would not want to try it any other way with an 85 pound canoe. Coming at it from the side without extension racks would lead to bashing up the paint, or worse.
Load from back end of truck For a short truck like your Tacoma you need to have the rear rack mounted on the bed somewhere from the middle to the tailgate. You walk up to the truck with the canoe on your shoulders and place the bow over the rear rack bar. Squat down slowly till the stern is resting on the ground. Come out from under the canoe and pick up the stern end and push the canoe forward till you can set it down into your gunwale brackets. When your racks are set for your canoe it should take no more than 5 minutes till you are tied down and on the road.
Coming up alongside the truck and loading is much trickier and leaves you more subject to wind as you elevate the canoe. With crossbar extensions you can keep from lifting the entire weight of the canoe, but approaching from the tailgate simplifies the procedure.
There is a weight where each of us goes from comfortable lifting and carrying to struggling. It will of course vary with the individuals strength and stature. I am about your size and have loaded dozens of really heavy canoes solo, but it is a struggle, and i do it only as a demo, or to help those people at the takeout who have just discovered how much harder it becomes after a day of paddling or when the neighbor is not at the takeout like he was in the driveway at home. 60-65# is my B.E.G. for someone your size. The weight is not the only consideration, the bulk of a 17’ canoe along with how much wind it catches while on your shoulders must also be considered.
If you must go with one of the heavier layups due to cost limits, buy or make yourself a good yoke with contoured pads. It will make any canoe feel 15-20# lighter. Good pads can be added to any standard wooden yoke.
On the water there is no difference in handling between a kevlar or fiberglass version of the same hull with a normal load. The difference between 400# and 430# in a Spirit is nothing. Even 300-330# with two light paddlers is hard to tell. There is a noticeable difference between the Royalex and composite versions. Nothing to say the Royalex version is a barge and composite a speedboat, but paddle them back to back and you can tell.
there’s more than just the loading part. Where will you be putting in/taking out? Launch ramp next to the truck? Off a dock down a ramp? Down a trail then a mud bank?It’s kind of comparing power lifting competition to the worlds strongest man competition. Not just a clean/squat/jerk thing. The lighter the canoe the more places you’ll be able to check out if you want.
Sportspal I posted a long response to your inquire on the fishing board of this fourm. But for me, I’m going with the Sportspal square stern. It is a butt ugly canoe, it fits my bill, which is similar to yours.
But canoes are like potato chips, you can’t stop at just one. So I’m already looking at a second.
But why the Sportspal–well–cheap, light, and stable.
Good point by Daggermat… I find the most difficult thing to loading a canoe is getting it up on my shoulders in the first place. I’m 5’8" and 160 pounds, and I used to be able to throw 80 pound canoes onto my shoulders in one smooth motion, starting with canoe right side up and lifting it from the side. But at a few years on the down side of 50, it ain’t as easy anymore. Once it’s on my shoulders, loading it on the pick-up starting from the tailgate is a breeze, but I wouldn’t want to do with anything much heavier than the Penobscot I have now (60 pounds or so).
My advice…get a canoe that’s no more than 65 pounds or so, and also get a good set of racks. A lot of people don’t canoe as much as they otherwise would simply because it’s inconvenient to load and carry them on their vehicle.
Spirit II vs. Champlain I’ve had a canoe dealer near Cincinnati suggest that the Champlain, instead of the Spirit II, might be “better” for my purposes because it is more efficient, has a greater load capacity, and has greater stability. Anyone have any thoughts?
depends on your strength and which boat I can load a 16’ Dagger Legend (probably weighs 70 lbs) by myself onto the top of a pickup truck, but my wife and I have pretty much sworn off of trying to load the 13 foot Old Town Discovery 133 that we’re ‘storing’ for a friend. Of course, the 133 is an awkward boat to start with - very wide, very heavy, and a big flat center seat instead of a center thwart. Too bad, because the one thing that canoe does well is stay upright when my 2 and 5 year olds lean way out over the gunnels to touch the water.
Having dealt with really heavy canoes in the past, I’d say it’s worth the extra money to get something that will be easier to handle by yourself. Handling the kids is usually handful enough!
There’re are modifications… …you can make to your rack which will make boat-loading a breeze. There’s a side extension you can buy to attach to one cross bar, and with that setup, you pull out the extension (makes the bar stick way off the side of the truck), put one end of the boat on that. Then you pick up the other end and pivot it over onto the other cross bar. Then you pivot the first end of the boat from the cross-bar extension onto the main part of the cross bar. You never have to lift more than half the weight of the boat, and actually it’s more like one-third, since you can lift from one end while the cross bar supports the weight several feet in from the opposite end.
If you are handy with building stuff, I can send you pictures of my setup, which is a temporary third cross bar at the very rear of the vehicle. Set one end of the boat on that, then slide it forward onto the rack. Some people just lay a carpet on the back of the car and do the same thing.
