Budget is what I make it…
I can appreciate your point of view on the trailer subject CD1. My budget is pretty much whatever I want to pay for it but I am a bargain hunter. If I can get by safely with a much cheaper solution then that is what I want to do. I can afford a $2000 rack but I don’t need a Cadillac trailer when a Yugo will get me in the water just as well. I am more about function than looks and wow factor. When I started looking at trailers I heard of people buying these $300 Harbor Freight trailers. With minor modifications they had a viable solution from what they posted here.
Today I went to a nearby town that has a Harbor Freight store. They had one lonely trailer folded up in a corner with no wheels and gathering dust. Although I was not able to unfold it I could get an idea of the construction or lack there of. Harbor Freight is an outlet store that sells nothing but Chinese made knockoffs of tools and equipment. I work construction and I am no stranger to well made equipment of all types. The trailer I saw looked to be constructed of folded light gauge sheet metal rather than angle iron or tube steel which is far stronger. I can only describe it’s construction as unsubstantial in my opinion. That being said I have no idea how it functions as a trailer but many people here swear by it so who am I to argue with people actually use them.
I went to a local Blain’s Farm and Fleet and they have trailers made by Teske Manufacuting.
http://www.teskemfg.com/tiltbed.html
Both the 4X6 SST and the 5X8 Angle trailers have possibilities. I was wondering what the rest of you thought of these trailers. The 4x6 is $399 with 12" tires and made solidly with a diamond mesh deck. I am not sure how much I would have to extend the tongue but I am sure it would be necessary.
Much to my chagrin the thing about buying a trailer for kayaks is the more questions you ask the more questions that seem to arise…
I am presently like a deer in the headlights not knowing which way to turn…lol
I hear you, hy.
Email me at Pnet link above and I will try to snap some shots of my trailer to email you (I do not know hjow to resize for Pnet).
As someone in construction, I think you'll see what I saw in the trailer I got. I have no afficialitiopn with the Kentucky welder who makes them either.
But whatever you choose, I see you are putting great thought into it, and you came to the same conclusion I did so far: Harbor Freights are for the birds.
P.S. Where you at? No profile.
Rack and Roll
If you don't have composite kayaks and you don't paddle in salt water, probably any trailer will work BUT if you like your boats (composite) and trailer and paddle in salt water, an aluminum trailer with a lot of suspension travel is a must.
I have had a Rack and Roll trailer for two years...I think!? It's hard to keep up with time as you get older.
My trailer still looks new and my kayaks don't have any stress cracks for trailer jarring.
I understand they now have a wider stance and a stiffer tongue. My trailer's tongue extension is about as stiff as a wet noodle with four boats on the trailer...very creepy.
I have never had any problems "getting a hold" of Rack and Roll and am sorry to hear others have.
Initial cost is brutal but I love my Rack and Roll and definitely give it and them (owners) an A+, I recommend the trailer if you are going to use it often and keep it a long time!
Good luck
Franklin
Chicago Rack and Roll
Yesterday my wife and I drove up to the Chicago Sea Kayaking Symposium at the 63rd street beach in Chicago. We got a chance to see several trailers that were parked empty in the lot. The rack and roll is sweet no doubt. I don’t think the quality was ever in question just the price. I also saw one of the Magneta Trailers which one of the dealers brought. It was huge but could carry like 9 kayaks. The trailer portion itself did not look like anything that substantial but the rack itself was huge.
My wife and I then walked around the lot to check out all the roof racks and combinations of people who brought their yaks for the classes. There were probably 100+ people in the water getting various levels of professional instruction in different groups.
The Symposium was a little disappointing since my wife and I were told there would be numerous dealers there with demo kayaks but only Wilderness Systems, Necky, and Valley had a handfull of yaks to look at.
The Harbor Freight Trailers
are actually pretty solid once you get them assembled and you can add a sheet of 4x8 plywood to stiffen them up even more if you want. Even 3 2x4s running from front to back make them pretty solid.
They are rated for 1175 lbs, so for hauling kayaks they are overkill really. The springs are stiffer than you need, but for plastic boats I have no worries about hurting them. If I had a fancy composite boat, I would still use the Harbor Freight, I would just add more padding to distribute the load over a larger area on the kayak.
As with most things, the more expensive models require less assembly and modifications, but the HFs are a solid platform to build on top of. And for some of us, the price was right – I had a hard time justifying a $1000 trailer to haul my $500 kayak.
jim
hy_tek, I sent u another email and pics
Thanks for your email. G'luck.
P.S. If you get the McIntosh trailer--totally your own personal choice--we can tarp over it's uprights with ties to ground, inflatable mattress, bring wives and camp on it. Try that on a Rack and Roll. :-)
harbor freight price
On sale ours was $199 - add some wood and if you are or have a welder friend to firm it up a little - its a pretty decent trailer- for its price. I wouldn’t buy any smaller wheels than 12" - they offer 8" on some trailers which i would stay away from. Obviously an $800 steel trailer would be a better constructed trailer but it depends on what you need. Ours is rated 1175 lbs also (model 90154). Downfalls firstly is putting it together which is rather tedious. Once assembled the worst is over but it does rust - unlike aluminum. Our extender that husband made helps raise it up as the hitch sits too low for comfort on our van.
I don’t want to say its the be all end all trailer and it isn’t, but for its price and a few adjustments if handy, its not a bad trailer. Personally, if money is not an issue, I would buy either a trailex or rack and roll aluminum. I just wish they had a bottom sheet below the boats for protection. I think I’d prefer the rack and roll new 78" one which i had asked them over a year and a half ago if they were going to design - its wider to hold more boats. The best part besides aluminum is that you can use your favourite cradles. The trailex - you rest them on the bars and you must decide on which trailer with which bar distance that may not be a big deal but i do like our malones which support them nicely. These trailers look to be pretty good quality so i dont think you would need to mess around with them like you would with a harbor freight but my husband likes to putter with things so it wasnt an issue for him plus he liked the price a heck of a lot better!
Now one advantage of a basic trailer over the rack and roll - small one but still one - you can configure your trailer for 2 levels as you can see on redmonds pics (not sure if he is on this thread).
If I had my way, I would love to have a nice aluminum trailer but I havent found the perfect one yet for the $$ they cost. Maybe I could have 2 !!
The choice is yours!
Rack and Roll
http://www.shopgetoutdoors.com/images/trailer.jpg
I am a little startled that so many people mention the Rack and ROll when it has only one tier for kayaks, is not meant to take a long 16+foot kayak (I know, my friend has one--look at the pics, always stubby plastics on their website), even with the tongue extension, the bars are too close together for long kayaks, they are over $2000 before delivery charge, they are on glorified bicycle tires, the axle weight rating is poor, they cannot be used for any other function (eg lawn and garden stuff, etc.), they leave your kayak very low to the ground for mud and gravel, and they are made of aluminum which is very prone to stress fracture and metal fatigue--in fact, they recently (two months ago) recalled them all, well publicized on Pnet--and are having owners retrofit a steel plate to the aluminum tongue. And then, to top it all off, there was a thread on here a week ago with someone having real issues contacting Rack and Roll. No communication.
I think the trailer I bought is superb, but I am not saying to buy one... I am just saying, like Redmond and others in my past thread linked above, that buying a nice 5 x 7 utility trailer--beefier than HF put-togethers (funny, hy-tek, about one dusty one in the corner) and making it what you want thru a welder will be head and shoulders above anything like a Rack and Roll. And cheaper.
Just my thoughts from studying my neighbors Rack and Roll and deciding against it for many more reasons than just price.
Addendum: here is a good trailer:
http://www.nicholstrailers.com/Custom/canoe.htm
The construction looks good, and the build it right, even though I think all the cross members are extraneous and in the way (but needed for that many tiers).
The one I have--and hy-tek has photos--is like this, but with double uprights (and two tiers) no cross members, has 15 inch wheels (not 13 inch), and while this one has a cheaper plywood decking, the McIntosh trailer has 2x6x1 inch thick pressure treated deck.
Anyhow, as redmond and a couple other have well said to me--and I thank them for the advice--this type of trailer, properly constructed--is a winner.
Snow bear trailers
http://www.snowbear.com/page/Utility_and_Landscape_Style_Trailers
Home Depot sells these for about $700.It comes with an extendable tongue, the gates lay flat, and it has a treated wood deck.I think you could lay 2 kayaks in it and take off.
Forgive Me
If I sounded in my previous post like I was dissing Harbor Freight Trailers I really wasn’t. Nobody can tell you what trailer is right for you. Everyone has different needs. In my case if I am dropping over a grand on a trailer I want to be able to use it to haul stuff on demand as well. Not to just haul kayaks. I have been looking at various commercial utility trailers and every one must be modified to a certain extent in order to haul kayaks. The common problem with a light utility trailer is the tongues are too short for the longer kayaks over 16’. One thing of concern to me with the boat trailer type rack carriers is the high center of gravity and the low trailer weight. The weight of 4 kayaks is greater than the weight of the entire trailer. I would have a concern over rolling the trailer under the right wind and turning conditions with that high center of gravity.
Most commercial boat trailers under 2000# capacity I looked at to modify for kayaks use 12" tires. Not all tires are created equal and that is something I worry about with cheap trailers. Nothing like looking in the rear view mirror and seeing your tire treads go one way and the trailer loaded with kayaks go another at highway speeds.
The trailer that CD1 bought is top notch. It is in fact the sturdiest and most substantial trailer I have seen to date. Some things like 15" wheels may not have been necessary but they sure make it ride better and no worries on the highway with them. If I had a choice between a Rack and Roll or his custom trailer hands down the custom trailer wins. I hope he can get a pic posted here for you to look at or if he doesn’t mind I can post one for him.
Harbor Freight is not for me but then again it makes a difference if you are hauling $300 kayaks or $3000 kayaks on how much a good trailer is worth to you. Another issue is if you haul locally or extended distances. The cheap ones are probably fine locally but I want something substantial with some weight to it if I am doing 70 on the Interstate with $4000 worth of kayaks on the back.
Bottom line whatever works for your needs is a good trailer my friends…
Thats CD1’s trailer
CD1 check out that Nichols Trailer in that link above it looks strangely like the one you have with some minor variations. Very nice trailer as well.
Pics
http://tinyurl.com/3etgu8
Bryan McIntosh is the custom trailer welder, and his phone number is 270-726-8989 in Kentucky. And he ships.
G'luck hy_tek and others. This thread has much information, and thus it will live on in the Advice column, which is archived on Pnet.
Might be different on HF trailers…
On our snowmobile trailer the existing tongue only had to be drilled for a bolt hole in a different location. Then the tongue was slid out more and bolted in that position.
Costs
Some numbers for you.
The snowmobile trailer cost $1000 new back in 2000. The recent custom brackets were another $350, and I don’t think this guy’s rates were low (he came highly recommended, though). We have replaced one set of tires in 8 years.
Payload is about 1300 lbs, with a Dexter torsion axle. VERY rigid tongue even after extending it longer than its already-long stock trim. Flatbed floor so no rocks from below. We’ve hauled much heavier stuff than kayaks with it. The trailer bed came with a tilting hinge, though we have locked it out.
Have used it on road trips on western Interstates (70-75 mph) without any trouble. The thing has a wonderfully low profile. Weighed a little under 400 lbs before the mods so towable with a Class I hitch or a truck bumper.
The bed section is 9.5 or 10 ft long (I forget which), so it can carry 18’ sea kayaks without excessive overhang in back OR jackknifing problems in front.
After 8 years of regular use, I am very happy with this trailer. The R&R is lighter and can be collapsed for apartment storage, but it has far more limited uses with its low payload and wimpy tongue.
Trailer price increase…
Ok the price of CD1’s custom trailer just went up $400 from $1250 to $1650 in one week. The maker estimates shipping at $300 additional. I would have to buy saddles for 4 kayaks bays so that is another $400 at $100 a kayak. Bringing the total to around $2350 delivered. I am afaid that is a little too much for a trailer I will use for kayaks only. I am going to check with a local custom trailer maker and see what he would charge to make a trailer similar but not as much overkill. That trailer had a 3500# axle and weighed in at 1100# according to the maker with 15’ tires. While all this heavy duty trailer construction is nice it is like planting daisies with a backhoe…way overkill for 200# of kayaks. I just feel my money could be spent better elsewhere on a kayak or equipment upgrades rather than a Mercedes Custom Trailer. My kayaks won’t know the difference anyway but my wallet will…lol…
Nice trailer though
CD1’s trailer looks very nice and solid for sure but with gas prices so high, I wouldnt want to be towing that much weight for a few kayaks. Just for interests sake - google “castlecraft” no affiliation and have never purchased from them but they carry trailex and have an interesting design (box style with multi uses) I know people who have trailex trailers and like them alot. My gripe is the small tires and my suggestion to trailex for a larger tire fell on deaf ears so…i dont own one but i do like the construction. Many kayak dealers use them when bringing large numbers of boats for paddlefests and they are reasonably light - less gas useage. I agree rack and roll trailers although they upped the weight max i think a hundred pounds with the slightly larger version- its still low if you want to put multi boats on in poly.
Harbor Freight and extended hitch
I made up a Harbor Freight trailer to haul Kayaks, but also firewood and other stuff, too, so I actually wanted a deck and sides on it. Additionally, I needed it to fold and fit into the garage. As such, I couldn’t extend the tongue, and made the sides and kayak bars easily removeable.
I just made up a hitch extension for the receiver hitch on my truck, using thick-wall 2" OD tubing, and a 2" hitch receiver 18" long I snagged at Harbor Freight. I didn’t need to fire up the welder, just the drill press, since I made the extension adjustable in length (36", 30", 26"). I can tow it behind the F350 with the camper on, and the various lengths allow for different lengths of Kayaks.
Just a different solution to the length problem, for those who have 6K capacity hitches. An extension this long on a class II or lower hitch could be dangerous.
Legal Rear overhang limit
Everyone says to just extend the tongue to get a kayak to fit on a trailer. My question is if you center the boat on the trailer which is how it should be so the weight is evenly distributed, how much can you legally let the boat extend off the back? From some of the commercial racks I see people are selling it’s like they made sure the boat doesn’t hit the tow vehicle in front but the rear overhang is really not considered. I read that you can have no more than 3’ overhang legally but from what I see in these home made trailers there is much more than 3’ extending over the back of the trailer. I am in Illinois so I am not sure what the restrictions are yet. I am not sure you can just safely extend the tongue on any trailer either. What about the safety of doing that? I further see trailers with the kayaks laying on side just resting on bars with not much support. That can’t be good for the hull bouncing around like that on the road I would think. Maybe I just think too much…lol
I am now in contact with a local trailer builder to see what a custom trailer would cost. These are all questions I need to ask him.
Nichols Trailers!
Wow,
I had him (Nichols) make me a motorcycle trailer (when I was racing). Awesome. Lasted until I retired from racing.
For kayaking though, I have chosen the Rack and Roll.
For steel trailers, I would highly recommend Nichols too.
Bill
Charleston, SC
Here are some pics of my trailer.
I started with a basic tilting flatbed from TSC. It carries 6 kayaks and gear for more than 6. Tilt bed, aluminum ramp under the bed. Aluminum sides and storage box from TSC.8"pvc tube for paddle storage. I welded up the racks and voila! It can carry yard loads, snowmobile, Harley, yaks, whatever. I think I have around $1,500.00 into it, but I got help from my friend on some of the fab work.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4/Wolverinemw/SouthBass014.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4/Wolverinemw/SouthBass011.jpg
