The Harbor Freight Trailers
are actually pretty solid once you get them assembled and you can add a sheet of 4x8 plywood to stiffen them up even more if you want. Even 3 2x4s running from front to back make them pretty solid.
They are rated for 1175 lbs, so for hauling kayaks they are overkill really. The springs are stiffer than you need, but for plastic boats I have no worries about hurting them. If I had a fancy composite boat, I would still use the Harbor Freight, I would just add more padding to distribute the load over a larger area on the kayak.
As with most things, the more expensive models require less assembly and modifications, but the HFs are a solid platform to build on top of. And for some of us, the price was right – I had a hard time justifying a $1000 trailer to haul my $500 kayak.
jim
hy_tek, I sent u another email and pics
Thanks for your email. G'luck.
P.S. If you get the McIntosh trailer--totally your own personal choice--we can tarp over it's uprights with ties to ground, inflatable mattress, bring wives and camp on it. Try that on a Rack and Roll. :-)
harbor freight price
On sale ours was $199 - add some wood and if you are or have a welder friend to firm it up a little - its a pretty decent trailer- for its price. I wouldn’t buy any smaller wheels than 12" - they offer 8" on some trailers which i would stay away from. Obviously an $800 steel trailer would be a better constructed trailer but it depends on what you need. Ours is rated 1175 lbs also (model 90154). Downfalls firstly is putting it together which is rather tedious. Once assembled the worst is over but it does rust - unlike aluminum. Our extender that husband made helps raise it up as the hitch sits too low for comfort on our van.
I don’t want to say its the be all end all trailer and it isn’t, but for its price and a few adjustments if handy, its not a bad trailer. Personally, if money is not an issue, I would buy either a trailex or rack and roll aluminum. I just wish they had a bottom sheet below the boats for protection. I think I’d prefer the rack and roll new 78" one which i had asked them over a year and a half ago if they were going to design - its wider to hold more boats. The best part besides aluminum is that you can use your favourite cradles. The trailex - you rest them on the bars and you must decide on which trailer with which bar distance that may not be a big deal but i do like our malones which support them nicely. These trailers look to be pretty good quality so i dont think you would need to mess around with them like you would with a harbor freight but my husband likes to putter with things so it wasnt an issue for him plus he liked the price a heck of a lot better!
Now one advantage of a basic trailer over the rack and roll - small one but still one - you can configure your trailer for 2 levels as you can see on redmonds pics (not sure if he is on this thread).
If I had my way, I would love to have a nice aluminum trailer but I havent found the perfect one yet for the $$ they cost. Maybe I could have 2 !!
The choice is yours!
Rack and Roll
http://www.shopgetoutdoors.com/images/trailer.jpg
I am a little startled that so many people mention the Rack and ROll when it has only one tier for kayaks, is not meant to take a long 16+foot kayak (I know, my friend has one--look at the pics, always stubby plastics on their website), even with the tongue extension, the bars are too close together for long kayaks, they are over $2000 before delivery charge, they are on glorified bicycle tires, the axle weight rating is poor, they cannot be used for any other function (eg lawn and garden stuff, etc.), they leave your kayak very low to the ground for mud and gravel, and they are made of aluminum which is very prone to stress fracture and metal fatigue--in fact, they recently (two months ago) recalled them all, well publicized on Pnet--and are having owners retrofit a steel plate to the aluminum tongue. And then, to top it all off, there was a thread on here a week ago with someone having real issues contacting Rack and Roll. No communication.
I think the trailer I bought is superb, but I am not saying to buy one... I am just saying, like Redmond and others in my past thread linked above, that buying a nice 5 x 7 utility trailer--beefier than HF put-togethers (funny, hy-tek, about one dusty one in the corner) and making it what you want thru a welder will be head and shoulders above anything like a Rack and Roll. And cheaper.
Just my thoughts from studying my neighbors Rack and Roll and deciding against it for many more reasons than just price.
Addendum: here is a good trailer:
http://www.nicholstrailers.com/Custom/canoe.htm
The construction looks good, and the build it right, even though I think all the cross members are extraneous and in the way (but needed for that many tiers).
The one I have--and hy-tek has photos--is like this, but with double uprights (and two tiers) no cross members, has 15 inch wheels (not 13 inch), and while this one has a cheaper plywood decking, the McIntosh trailer has 2x6x1 inch thick pressure treated deck.
Anyhow, as redmond and a couple other have well said to me--and I thank them for the advice--this type of trailer, properly constructed--is a winner.
Snow bear trailers
http://www.snowbear.com/page/Utility_and_Landscape_Style_Trailers
Home Depot sells these for about $700.It comes with an extendable tongue, the gates lay flat, and it has a treated wood deck.I think you could lay 2 kayaks in it and take off.
Forgive Me
If I sounded in my previous post like I was dissing Harbor Freight Trailers I really wasn’t. Nobody can tell you what trailer is right for you. Everyone has different needs. In my case if I am dropping over a grand on a trailer I want to be able to use it to haul stuff on demand as well. Not to just haul kayaks. I have been looking at various commercial utility trailers and every one must be modified to a certain extent in order to haul kayaks. The common problem with a light utility trailer is the tongues are too short for the longer kayaks over 16’. One thing of concern to me with the boat trailer type rack carriers is the high center of gravity and the low trailer weight. The weight of 4 kayaks is greater than the weight of the entire trailer. I would have a concern over rolling the trailer under the right wind and turning conditions with that high center of gravity.
Most commercial boat trailers under 2000# capacity I looked at to modify for kayaks use 12" tires. Not all tires are created equal and that is something I worry about with cheap trailers. Nothing like looking in the rear view mirror and seeing your tire treads go one way and the trailer loaded with kayaks go another at highway speeds.
The trailer that CD1 bought is top notch. It is in fact the sturdiest and most substantial trailer I have seen to date. Some things like 15" wheels may not have been necessary but they sure make it ride better and no worries on the highway with them. If I had a choice between a Rack and Roll or his custom trailer hands down the custom trailer wins. I hope he can get a pic posted here for you to look at or if he doesn’t mind I can post one for him.
Harbor Freight is not for me but then again it makes a difference if you are hauling $300 kayaks or $3000 kayaks on how much a good trailer is worth to you. Another issue is if you haul locally or extended distances. The cheap ones are probably fine locally but I want something substantial with some weight to it if I am doing 70 on the Interstate with $4000 worth of kayaks on the back.
Bottom line whatever works for your needs is a good trailer my friends…
Thats CD1’s trailer
CD1 check out that Nichols Trailer in that link above it looks strangely like the one you have with some minor variations. Very nice trailer as well.
Pics
http://tinyurl.com/3etgu8
Bryan McIntosh is the custom trailer welder, and his phone number is 270-726-8989 in Kentucky. And he ships.
G'luck hy_tek and others. This thread has much information, and thus it will live on in the Advice column, which is archived on Pnet.
Might be different on HF trailers…
On our snowmobile trailer the existing tongue only had to be drilled for a bolt hole in a different location. Then the tongue was slid out more and bolted in that position.
Costs
Some numbers for you.
The snowmobile trailer cost $1000 new back in 2000. The recent custom brackets were another $350, and I don’t think this guy’s rates were low (he came highly recommended, though). We have replaced one set of tires in 8 years.
Payload is about 1300 lbs, with a Dexter torsion axle. VERY rigid tongue even after extending it longer than its already-long stock trim. Flatbed floor so no rocks from below. We’ve hauled much heavier stuff than kayaks with it. The trailer bed came with a tilting hinge, though we have locked it out.
Have used it on road trips on western Interstates (70-75 mph) without any trouble. The thing has a wonderfully low profile. Weighed a little under 400 lbs before the mods so towable with a Class I hitch or a truck bumper.
The bed section is 9.5 or 10 ft long (I forget which), so it can carry 18’ sea kayaks without excessive overhang in back OR jackknifing problems in front.
After 8 years of regular use, I am very happy with this trailer. The R&R is lighter and can be collapsed for apartment storage, but it has far more limited uses with its low payload and wimpy tongue.
Trailer price increase…
Ok the price of CD1’s custom trailer just went up $400 from $1250 to $1650 in one week. The maker estimates shipping at $300 additional. I would have to buy saddles for 4 kayaks bays so that is another $400 at $100 a kayak. Bringing the total to around $2350 delivered. I am afaid that is a little too much for a trailer I will use for kayaks only. I am going to check with a local custom trailer maker and see what he would charge to make a trailer similar but not as much overkill. That trailer had a 3500# axle and weighed in at 1100# according to the maker with 15’ tires. While all this heavy duty trailer construction is nice it is like planting daisies with a backhoe…way overkill for 200# of kayaks. I just feel my money could be spent better elsewhere on a kayak or equipment upgrades rather than a Mercedes Custom Trailer. My kayaks won’t know the difference anyway but my wallet will…lol…
Nice trailer though
CD1’s trailer looks very nice and solid for sure but with gas prices so high, I wouldnt want to be towing that much weight for a few kayaks. Just for interests sake - google “castlecraft” no affiliation and have never purchased from them but they carry trailex and have an interesting design (box style with multi uses) I know people who have trailex trailers and like them alot. My gripe is the small tires and my suggestion to trailex for a larger tire fell on deaf ears so…i dont own one but i do like the construction. Many kayak dealers use them when bringing large numbers of boats for paddlefests and they are reasonably light - less gas useage. I agree rack and roll trailers although they upped the weight max i think a hundred pounds with the slightly larger version- its still low if you want to put multi boats on in poly.
Harbor Freight and extended hitch
I made up a Harbor Freight trailer to haul Kayaks, but also firewood and other stuff, too, so I actually wanted a deck and sides on it. Additionally, I needed it to fold and fit into the garage. As such, I couldn’t extend the tongue, and made the sides and kayak bars easily removeable.
I just made up a hitch extension for the receiver hitch on my truck, using thick-wall 2" OD tubing, and a 2" hitch receiver 18" long I snagged at Harbor Freight. I didn’t need to fire up the welder, just the drill press, since I made the extension adjustable in length (36", 30", 26"). I can tow it behind the F350 with the camper on, and the various lengths allow for different lengths of Kayaks.
Just a different solution to the length problem, for those who have 6K capacity hitches. An extension this long on a class II or lower hitch could be dangerous.
Legal Rear overhang limit
Everyone says to just extend the tongue to get a kayak to fit on a trailer. My question is if you center the boat on the trailer which is how it should be so the weight is evenly distributed, how much can you legally let the boat extend off the back? From some of the commercial racks I see people are selling it’s like they made sure the boat doesn’t hit the tow vehicle in front but the rear overhang is really not considered. I read that you can have no more than 3’ overhang legally but from what I see in these home made trailers there is much more than 3’ extending over the back of the trailer. I am in Illinois so I am not sure what the restrictions are yet. I am not sure you can just safely extend the tongue on any trailer either. What about the safety of doing that? I further see trailers with the kayaks laying on side just resting on bars with not much support. That can’t be good for the hull bouncing around like that on the road I would think. Maybe I just think too much…lol
I am now in contact with a local trailer builder to see what a custom trailer would cost. These are all questions I need to ask him.
Nichols Trailers!
Wow,
I had him (Nichols) make me a motorcycle trailer (when I was racing). Awesome. Lasted until I retired from racing.
For kayaking though, I have chosen the Rack and Roll.
For steel trailers, I would highly recommend Nichols too.
Bill
Charleston, SC
Here are some pics of my trailer.
I started with a basic tilting flatbed from TSC. It carries 6 kayaks and gear for more than 6. Tilt bed, aluminum ramp under the bed. Aluminum sides and storage box from TSC.8"pvc tube for paddle storage. I welded up the racks and voila! It can carry yard loads, snowmobile, Harley, yaks, whatever. I think I have around $1,500.00 into it, but I got help from my friend on some of the fab work.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4/Wolverinemw/SouthBass014.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4/Wolverinemw/SouthBass011.jpg
Overhang limits
Check YOUR state’s laws, but most of the posts on this subject before have revealed that generally 4’ of overhang is allowed withOUT bright warning flags. Many people add the flags even with less overhang.
With my 16.5’ Tempest 165 centered lengthwise over the trailer’s flatbed, I have a little over 3’ of overhang fore and aft. I’m picking up a 17.5-footer soon, which will still be within the 4’ limit.
Extending the tongue may or may not be a good idea, depending on the trailer. It worked beautifully with ours.
You may want to talk with a good trailer and hitch shop to get your questions answered. If it’s not a kayak-specific trailer you’ll need to do some outfitting and/or mods but not necessarily a full-blown custom trailer.
If you have a short bed with long tongue
...you bwould be called Gene Simmons.
No, seriousliy, you will need a T-bar welded to the tongue to move your boat up far enough if you use a shorter box.
The legal overhang, according to prior Pnet posts, is 5 feet.
http://tinyurl.com/6b4uu3
Here's one too far away but certainly gives idea about concept of utility to kayak. Still does not have the drop down back you seek. And to me, although I appreciate the A-frame tongue, it simply does not look long enough (the tongue).
Plus, wasted vertical space in that the lower crossbars do not come down to the trailer; they are about a foot too high; useless space (unless you;re putting something large in the bed, which is unlikely when kayaking). So, it's just something to see and study. Another "prototype" to your ultimate trailer.
I have yet to see a funtional kayak trailer with a drop down back (to use for other items, like lawnmower, et cetera). Have you seen one?
Many paddlers enjoying your thread, hy_. This has become "the thread" for all things trailer. Everyone holding breathe to see which one you get or make.
hy_
See my first post immediately above this one
McIntosh at $1650 plus $300 shipping is only $300 more than I got mine on an eBay auction (mine plus higher shipping was only $300 more than his current asking price plus his lower shipping). And you can have him simply leave off the back panel of the enclosed trailer (that can't cost any extra, I am sure), and then the open back can be "closed" with a pickup truck gate net (or they make aluminum ones) like this:
http://www.carcoverguys.com/gatornet.jpg
Then using removeable ramps can get anything you want on the trailer.
http://www.atvramps.com/folding_dual_ramps.htm
Tons better than an expensive and rattling (I know, I had one) drop down ramp. The thing rattled like a banshee and I never converted it to a kayak trailer because of the drop down gate (which I would have removed anyhow and done the system I mention to you above, that's how I know about it), and it was too short at 5x6, and I would have had to weld on a T bar on the tongue plus extend the tongue, and even after all that, the thing (which was a Pace trailer, onme of the best brands for utility trailers) would still have to have removeable cross bars for the kayaks, reinforced so the bars are stable (like the bed metal plate on the Mcintosh), and by the time I was all done desiging and pricing it with a welder, I decided to sell the trailer and get McIntosh trailer as it was better in every regard. Plus, the resale would be better as it is still cheaper than most other "name brand" kayak trailers. SO you'll get your coin back.
As for the saddles, you wil need to buy those for any trailer.
Just more thoughts from the peanut gallery.
PS did you search "utility trailer" on eBay yet? Tons of models to pick from. The "good ones" new (you want new, or near new) will run you $900-1k before kayak specific mods.
Yes CD1 I looked
Yes CD1 believe me I have looked on Ebay and at every trailer brand and kayak dealer in the USA I think. Everyone seems to sell a similar utility type trailer that would have to be modified. I considered a John boat type trailer which would be the cheapest to modify by adding uprights and cross arms. My only reservation there is the front kayak support would have to be sitting on the tongue itself. There would be no side to side support for the upright especially when carrying only one yak off center. That just seems unstable to me and it has no cargo carrying capacity like a modified utility trailer.
Right now I have been looking at 4x8 and 5x8 trailers and having one modified but I have yet to find someone locally with a trailer knowledge that I would feel safe doing the work. Anyone can just weld but I want to make sure it is safe in design as well as function. I want to make sure the way they extend the tongue is safe.
I am in contact with several custom trailer builders at the moment. It remains to be seen at this point whether they can build me a trailer at a reasonable cost point. I am still waiting for estimates.
My issue is there are not many trailer dealers or custom trailer shops around here. All the online custom trailer dealers are either on the east coast or out west it would seem and shipping costs would be prohibitive. All my discussions are via email or phone which is not the best way to design a trailer.
One thing about me is I have to see something before I buy it. I do not do well with paying $2000 for something I can't see in person. Thus far I have lots of ideas but have yet been able to actually see a modified trailer setup of any kind in person. It appears the cornfields of Illinois are not the mecca for kayaking and equipment dealers. I found a custom dealer near Rockford, IL. that seems promising. I will be taking a road trip there this weekend I hope.
I will keep looking and come up with something I am sure. It can't cost that much to put a couple upright T-bars on a utility trailer bed and in the end that is really all I need.
And CD1 if you are waiting "anxiously" for my trailer choice then you really need to get a hobby or something......lol....just kidding my friend!
The kayak trailer saga continues...