any one got a wiki on nomex for kayaks? I know its used in fire resistant clothing/gear-but kayaks?
Will that make us safer in a lightning
storm?
Cheers,
JackL
Specifically Designed…
for PNet discussions. The brits will be coming out with these for their own fans who love to burn it up with endless posts on minutae.
WS may also come out with one for the P140, thus making more than one happy fan. Although only one “fan” posts non-stop on it, he actually reflects a quiet legion who use and love these boats but know better than to post endlessly about them. WS should be grateful as P140s help keep the company afloat.
sing
Donning his nomex wetsuit. :0
Nomex
Years ago, back when I was a volunteer fireman I had a Nomex hood. What I remember about it was that it was thick and heavy. Can’t imagine those two characteristics being desirable for composite hull construction, but I imagine it could be made thinner/lighter in weight. When I did a wiki look-up on Nomex it stated: “It can be considered an aromatic nylon, the meta variant of the para-aramid Kevlar.” and “Meta aramid cannot align during filament formation and has poor strength.” Seems to me that Nomex would be a poor choice as a composite hull material – at least by that definition.
Of course the last time I made the mistake of using a Wikipedia definition some daf Brit accused me and all my “mates” of engaging in homosexuals acts. I say, a bit vulgar what? RK
Pretty sure…
– Last Updated: Dec-16-07 8:14 AM EST –
Honeycomb Nomex was used to stiffen the hulls of racing catamarans in the 70's.
BAIK ('bout all I know)
More here...
http://tinyurl.com/2muz6v
Why
would they use nomex when they have Kevlar?
Riot Kayaks
They used a honeycomb nomex material for a while on a couple of their high end composite boats. It stiffened the hull and did keep the weight down much like Bell and Wenonah use a foam core for the same purpose in their canoes. If there was any lay-up or structual issues with it, I am unaware of it. I did have their Sultan now called the Arura with it and it developed no problems over the two yeas I had it. Fast boat.
Similar to Kevlar in chemical structure
If it is used for outer layer of a space suit to stop micrometeoroids it should be strong for boats. Good to know. Thanks!
is it similar to
there’s a material I saw made from dozens of layers of pressed plastic cloth like poly tarps are made of. Looked like a cross between thermoplastic and glass composite. Cheaper than glass and tougher than thermoplastic.
stiff boat
My Vajda has a Nomex core. Vacuum sandwiched between a couple of layers of carbon with an epoxy resin it makes for an extremely rigid boat. For marathon Vajda will layup either kevlar or carbon with Nomex core and either construction is very stiff and very light (8kg or less). Kevlar boats that light without a core would be very flimsy.
On that note. Epic’s Legacy K1 in the economy layup is fiberglass with a honeycomb core. The boat comes in a bit under 12kg and is the stiffest fiberglass boat I’ve ever seen. It is far stiffer than my carbon over kevlar river layup Nelo (river layup uses foam for a stringer at key stress areas to prevent flexing under paddling loads but lets vulerable parts of the hull flex to surive impacts without catastrophic failure).
Nomex was a good thing.
When I was a firefighter and my bunker gear was made of it. My lexan helmet and face shield failed several times (melted) while my nomex hood and clothing protected me. I’m a believer in it’s vitues. Never thought of making a boat out of it though!
Arkay
It actually says it cannot be molecularly aligned.
If this is the case you are totally correct in your assumption “old chap”
;^)
Wotever !!
Nomex
I have a Riot Sultan that was made with Nomex in about 2001. I bought it used and was unable to get any info about its’ construction from Riot. After about 6 emails, they responded with a directive to contact another company (I think that’s who built it for them). They have a well earned reputation as one of the worst companies for customer support with their sea kayak line. Don’t know about support of their white water line.
It is quite stiff and at 49 lbs for about 18’ it’s fairly light. Feels like a feather when compared with my 63 lb NDK Explorer. Of course the Explorer is an easy target to beat for weight. Inside the kayak you can see the honeycomb pattern of the Nomex, while the outside is gel coated. I assume there is glass under the gel coat, but don’t know. Fairly fast kayak, one of the “best of the rest” after the Epic 18’ and the QCC 700 level kayaks. My major complaint with the kayak is the seat back is very close to the rear coaming. I have lift my butt out of the seat and arch my back to do a layback roll.
Dave
Just like Kevlar, theres…
Nomex and Nomex …
Kevlar 29 the “bulletproof” stuff, kevlar 49 the boat building stuff …
Nomex ? fire retardant,
Nomex honeycomb = one of the ultimate strength to weight + stiffness cores … buuuut … for boats ? Imagine what happens to all those ( separated - by - a - paper - thin - wall ) cells once water gets in there … Answer … its over, for your beloved super light boat.
Soric used for infusion building is N O T honeycomb even though it’s cells look like it.
Nomex used in Sultan
Hi Pat,
As mentioned above, I tried about 6 times requesting a brochure or product info from Riot. I wanted to know just what materials were used in the Sultan and Riot didn’t answer. All I know, which isn’t much, is that I see honeycomb inside and gel coat outside. The previous owner said it was built with Nomex.
“Soric” being used and represented as Nomex is new to me, but you know far more about materials than I do, especially as I was unable to get info from Riot. What is soric?
Dave
nomex core?
The nomex core in a boat I recently had looked about like fiberglass insulation. This was in between an inner and outer layer of fg/carbon (said the maker).
For the curious, the reason I know what it looks like is that the boat was punctured twice. After the second time, I scrapped it (Yes, scrapped = throw in the garbage can). Neither impact, I think would ever puncture even a relatively inexpensive fiberglass layup, let alone one of the tougher kevlar boats.
Rowing shells
Most (if not all) of the top end rowing shells use a Nomex core.
My understanding is the Nomex, Kevlar and a few others are all just forms of PETE (polyethylene terephthalate).
From the repairs I’ve done, the Nomex is in a honeycomb form with the axis of the cells orthogonal to the surface of the hull or deck.
It makes for a very light and stiff boat, but it’s a bitch to repair. On small repairs I would just fill in the void with micro-balloons, on bigger ones, I would cut a piece out of a sheet of Nomex and lay it in with some epoxy.
For what it’s worth.
D
Yep Onno!
Once again a knowledgeable answer. I like soric, as it is one tough core! The honeycomb channels are resin, which creates essentially little I-beams connecting in a honneycomb pattern. It infuses very well and just makes for a crazy tough lay-up. The Nomex is the ultimate “light” way to seperate the layers and create stiffness, but the soric is far “tougher”. JMO. But for a race boat or surf ski, Nomex core makes sense. Toughness relates to skin lay-up at that point.