putting in thwarts and removing paint
yeah… rob said I should definately put in thwarts and I am going to do that. He said it wouldn’t be too expensive.
Is it even possible to remove the paint or is that opening up a can of worms and I should just leave the boat the way it is, a functional recreational boat.
Also, as far as moving in the hull, how would someone go about doing that and would it damage the hull?? You said shortening the length on the seat frame, so do you just take off the seat frame and then what?? I’m guessing this is something that I wouldn’t want to attempt myself so I don’t damage the boat?? I was planning on having a professiona locally that rob recommened do the thwarts because I don’t really have the know how and I would maybe have them adjust the width of the hull too if that wouldn’t be too time consuming of a process.
Jennifer
so this is at least partially Kevlar??
soooo… pblanc, does that mean that this is one of those hybrid boats you had mentioned with the gold colored stuff being Kevlar cloth, the white stuff being fiberglass, and the then the grey paint on top?? Or is this just Kevlar cloth by itself with some grey paint on top and what are the pros and cons on Kevlar cloth versus regular old Kevlar. I’m not sure what I know the difference is or are they the same thing??
Wondering what the white stuff is…
Jennifer
Try some Citrus stripper
on the hull interior. Put some on under one of the deck plates and you should get an idea of how easy or difficult it would be to strip the paint and what it looks like underneath it.
From your measurement of the beam it sounds as if the boat is 1 1/2 - 2 inches wider than spec so you would probably need to cut about an inch off of each side of the seat frame crosspieces (or a little less) and drill new holes to accommodate the machine screws that hold the seat to the brackets. This might result in the old holes being visible near the ends of the frame cross pieces though.
To pull the gunwales in to the proper width I usually apply a pair of pipe clamps crosswise across the top of the canoe a little ahead of and behind center and crank the gunwales in a little. If you remove the seat it is possible that the hull will come back into proper width on its own. Pulling them in just 1 1/2 to 2 inches shouldn’t require that much force. If you don’t have clamps a pair of cam straps might work as well.
You can get an estimate from photos of Mad River Slippers you can find on the web or in old MRC catalogs where to position two new thwarts. Find the center of the boat using a flexible steel tape measuring from both stems. Don’t go by eye or judge the center according to the rivet holes in the gunwales as they might not be exactly placed. Mark positions equidistant from the center toward the bow and the stern where you want to put the thwarts and measure the width from the inside of the hull straight across to the inside of the hull on the opposite side (with the hull pulled in to specified width at the center) to get the width of the thwart. Since the Slipper is pretty much symmetrical the two thwarts should be about the same length.
As far as I know, back in 1986 MRC Kevlar canoes were all Kevlar cloth covered with gel coat without any fiberglass.
The Forensics Team has the results…
Fiberglass. The translucence of the fiberglass laminate (probably 4 layers of 10oz cloth in that part of the hull)combined with the sand gel coat backing it up, you get a color close enough that you wonder if it might be Kevlar. But this one is not. Also, the HIN# would have had a “-K” at the end which was code for…yes, you guessed it…Kevlar hull. KH=Kevlar Hybrid (Ariex foam/KV laminate), KL=Kevlar Lightweight (skincoat).
I think she totally got her monies worth. We talked about what and who in St. Paul can tweek her hull(thwarts, narrow seat, etc).
Happy paddlin’
openboater
thanks everyone!!
Thanks to everyone who helped and especially pblance and openboater… I am going to take it down to the shop that Rob recommended and have them install everything that it still needs.
Like openboater said, I feel like I got my money’s worth and am happy with my puchase…thank again everyone!!!
Jennifer
Curious
I’ve been following this thread - please let us know how it turns out when the work is done!
Slipper
No doubt it's a Slipper, a local, Minneapolis design by Bob Brown, that was the best selling gen purpose solo ever. Notice the stems are crooked, rocker non-existent.
It's a follow on to the larger CJ Solo he did for Old Town and a precursor to the smaller Creek Runner he did for Bell, 14.5' and the BlackHawk NightHawk/FishHawk, 13' and change.
[Fingerling was a radically cut down Screamer,a Jim Henry design which would be ~16'long, wider.]
Best place in the twin cities, my home from 92-98, would be Northwest Canoe in St Paul, down by the river South of the farmer's market. They know their stuff. 651.229.0192, 308 prince St. ST Paul.
for sure
• Sorry, I just noticed this. Confirming much of above empirically (because I have one of these) HIN is incontrovertibly Mad River Slipper (“Ladyslipper” (like the flower)1983-85, “Slipper” by 1986 (because they wanted boys to want them)), fiberglass/polyester (Kevlar® HINs added suffix -K). At some point the kneeling pads were removed, inside painted and gunwales/thwarts/seat bastardized (no, let’s say “replaced”), which likely distorted the measurements.
• It’s not true MR made only pure glass or Kevlar® in the mid-80s, they mixed fibers freely, employed foam cores and also dabbled in Royalex® (remember Royalex®? - RIP) but hulls were primarily if not entirely one fiber or the other, reflected in the HIN. I’m not sure why you’re sure a little Kevlar® is a good thing, but MR liked using it so it’s quite possible that a layer of K is embedded in your hull.
• MR even dabbled in aluminum, but not on this sweetheart. The original rails, thwarts and sliding cane seat were Vermont Ash, fittings stainless steel, deck plates Royalex®. And, incidentally, no, you won’t find holes in the hull where the thwarts were attached. Rails were screwed through the hull to each other; thwarts were screwed to the inner rails.
• The short-lived Fingerling & Screamer were longer, leaner, faster solos. Slipper was designed for grooving around; under both names she was produced >13 years. She leans and turns beautifully. Several other solo boats were offered with similar-seeming but purpose-built shapes; yours, though, Cinderella, is a glass Slipper.
• P.S. You have it backwards. Mad River made high-quality canoes from 1971 until Confluence Watersports was created in 1998. Confluence owned the brand, patents, marques and molds. They moved the operation far from the Mad River and started pasting that name on whatever they felt like putting out. Confluence owns a raft of brands and has become Confluence Outdoor, admiring Johnson Outdoor’s octopus strategy but further diluting Mad River’s integrity.
• Not long ago I talked a fellow out of selling his early-80s Slipper, signed inside by Jim Henry. Jim didn’t design the Slipper (his corollary was named Pearl), but he got one of everything, maybe the first of everything, and that had been his Slipper.
P.S.
nice job on the refurb!