Down on the Necky Eliza
The poly Necky Eliza is a horrible boat. The cockpit proportions are wrong for us petite and average sized women, and it is slow and has poor secondary stability.
I have heard that the composite is a totally different boat, but I was so mad at Necky for designing and marketing this crappy one that I didn’t demo the composite.
Cate
http://www.womanonwater.blogspot.com
Welcome!!!
All the best in your decision to take up sea kayaking. You will get to explore many great places, see amazing sights and wildlife, and get fresh air and exercise.
Regarding your boat choices, I agree with the posts that say that fit is #1 priority. I am a little shorter and lighter than you but thought I would offer up my insight.
I agree with the posts about the quality of Valley’s plastic. I am currently paddling a poly Valley Avocet. It is not a fast boat but is very maneuverable and a great boat to learn in. It is a worthy day tripper if you are not trying to get anywhere fast. It shines in rock gardens and the surf zone. It is a durable boat that should last you a long time.
The Tempest 165 and Squall are worthy considerations but are not the best plastic. You may also want to keep your eyes out for an NDK Romany - again it is along the lines of the Avocet being a maneuverable boat.
I replied to Celia’s post about the Eliza. It feels good to many newbies but is a boat will lack in performance when you get some experience. If you are looking to learn to efficiently maneuver your boat and advance beyond beginner paddling skills, I would not consider the Eliza.
All the best!!!
Cate
http://www.womanonwater.blogspot.com
gotcha
Wetzool, thanks for your insight. I hear what you’re saying. My first test paddles will no doubt be like feeling around with my eyes closed. I realize I have to start somewhere though.
Read Rich’s article–very intelligent. Regarding his comment about “well-designed shorter boat [14’] can be just as efficient” as a 17 footer, what boats in particular do you think he had in mind?
Sat in a Tempest 165 today, unfortunately the dealer had no water nearby, but at least I got to feel how it fit, which was snug in a good way. WS rep was helpful adjusting it for me, answering questions. Sat in a Zephyr to compare, which felt too big.
The rep was talking up the new 14’ Dagger Alchemy boat that was designed by the Tempest designer–though there were none available to look at. Anyone have comments on that one?
froggy?
Celia, can you elaborate on “froggy” a little?
nice pix–thx for posting!
plastics
Curious about what makes one poly better than another–stiffness?
$1000 or under…
– Last Updated: Apr-24-09 5:02 PM EST –
can I realistically expect to pay $1000 or less for any of these 16' boats?
So far, pickin's are slim on Craigslist under 1k.
my guess…
– Last Updated: Apr-24-09 6:12 PM EST –
hi kathleen .....my guess would be that , yes, you may find some of those boats for under $1G ..used or possibly new, on sale, as model year leftovers. as Far as the poly thickness goes ..i think some are thicker than others...some have varible thickness thru-out the hulls. May i ask where is the area you live , maybe someone can recommend a kayak shop nearby you can call or stop and talk to the people about these things. i've included a web link for reference purposes only , to give you some idea of the boats out there and their prices, if that's any help.
http://www.oakorchardcanoe.com/clearance.php
PS: i have the yakima fold -down "j" bars ....very pricey like everything else ...but nice when they're empty as they fold down for less noise and wind resistance and you can get locks for them (more $$). I like then better than the standard rigid framed J-bars. saddles are another option . depends how tall u are and how easy/hard it would be to load and unload for you. there are magnetic backed rollers on the market, stick them where u need them, to help slide a boat up onto saddles.
Boat choice
The Hudson, Nantucket Sound and and Cape Cod Bay are all significant water. I would not want a 12 or 14 ft boat on water that big, go for a real sea kayak. Don’t worry about blemishes, buy a quality used sea kayak that feels good when you demo it. At your experience level, the boat you prefer this year will probably be different from the more advanced boat you will want next year.
I do
– Last Updated: Apr-24-09 7:34 PM EST –
have some recommendations for shops--thank you though--I've been emailing them, scanning prices, starting to visit now. I like to be (somewhat) well-informed before I walk in ;-)
a couple people have made passing remarks about poly quality in WS vs. Valley in this thread and just wondered about that a little more...
Efficiency
"Read Rich’s article–very intelligent. Regarding his comment about “well-designed shorter boat [14’] can be just as efficient” as a 17 footer, what boats in particular do you think he had in mind?"
He is basically talking about the waterline length. There are some 14-15’ boats that have waterline lengths equivilent to 17’ boats. These may have similar cruising efficiency. These boats generally have a more plum bow and/or stern. They may or may not excel in rock garden play and surfing. An example of a plum bow would be a QCC 10X: http://www.qcckayaks.com/kayaks/model.asp?model=q10x
This boat’s waterline length may be the same or even longer than some 17’ kayaks.
Another important aspect of efficiency is to match the boats overall size with your paddling ability. I often see smaller people paddling boats that are too big for them (i.e. for their power output). Many would do better with a scaled down boat such as the Valley Aquanaut LV vs. the Valley Aquanaut or the Tempest 165 vs. the Tempest 170.
Best,
~wetzool
plastic
Some companies have gone to a “three-layer” plastic that has a foamed core between smooth skins. if done well it can improve stiffness without adding weight.
Some manufacturers make changes to their processes fairly frequently, so a review of a specific boat may not apply to every variation of that design.
The Alchemy is brand-new this spring. The 14S does look like fun.
significant water & boat size
– Last Updated: Apr-25-09 7:33 AM EST –
I've been out in buoy-measured 12' swells in an 8' whitewater boat...
It's foolish to define seaworthiness by a single dimension. Every boat design is a series of tradeoffs -- stability for speed, reserve bouyancy for windage, hull speed for maneuverability, etc. Even something as trivial as deck shape affects wave shedding, footroom, cargo capacity, windage, paddle clearance, stiffness, and weight. Length is a function of the tradeoff between form drag, skin drag, maneuverability, weight, and volume, as well as stem shape and aesthetics. Is a 16' kayak with a 14' waterline safer than a 14' kayak with plumb stems?
Sea kayaks cluster in the 16-18' range because that's where the numbers work out pretty well for "average" paddlers in "average" conditions. The Explorer is great example of a boat that works very well for a lot of people. But there's nothing magic about those numbers. Ocean-racing surfskis are 21', and whitewater paddlers take 7' boats into conditions that would terrify many sea kayakers.
Seaworthiness in a kayak is also a function of the interaction between the boat and paddler. Being able to control the boat is a big part of staying safe in rough conditions. I think a 100-pound paddler would be much safer in a 14' Mystic than a 17' Nordkapp.
Another example: At my weight, I'd much rather be in a Tern 14 than the 17 when the wind starts to blow. I'll ride higher and drier in the 17, but I'll have a much harder time putting it where I want it.
On the other hand, I'd much rather be in a 17' Aquanaut LV than a 14' Tsunami 145. Factors other than length would give me more control.
So I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with 17' boats -- just that length alone is a poor way to choose.
Froggy legs
My legs tend to feel like I have to splay them out a bit to catch the thigh braces, rather than their lying more normally in front of me. Some people find that confortable, I don’t. Over time it’s a backache for me.
But you are three inches taller than me, and as wetzool says the RM Avocet has a tighter cockpit than the composite one. So you may not find yourself in the same position once fitted into the cockpit.
14 feet can be real
Actually a 14 foot Brit designed kayak can handle very big stuff, especially for a smaller paddler, 5’ 3" 110 lbs. The reduced windage, ease of turning in wind and waves, etc. and even speed in rough water can outclass some longer boats. Yes it is on the small end, but can actually be the boat of choice for a smaller paddler sometimes.
: > )
Impex Mystic
At 14’ the Impex Mystic is the shortest sea kayak of which I am aware which earns the respect of all who know it.
http://www.impexkayak.com/mystic.html
It has been around a long time and used to be made in both poly and composite.
Efficiency is a complex thing
One should also keep in mind that usually wetted surface trumps waterline up to around 4.5 knots so that a longer waterline is often less efficient (i.e. creates more drag) at the speeds most paddlers cruise.
Check out…
…the P&H Capella 160. Very nice, high quality boat. I picked up mine for just a bit over $1000 and love it.
Don’t confuse the poly Eliza
with the Composite!! Very different boats. The composite is the pure design with skeg and no MBA’s or Marketing folk. It is an outstanding kayak. The Poly version is the commitee boat, but it sells well and is not bad, just a commodity boat. Many superb paddlers agree with the above.
I agree
– Last Updated: Apr-25-09 6:53 AM EST –
Tideplay,
I agree - a good example is the Impex Mystic which is popular as a sea kayak with smaller women and even men.