Nigel Dennis Kayak: what happened??

…back on topic?
I was enjoying the string of info on NDK boats and everyone’s experience/opinions…can we get back onto that topic? (not intending to step on anyone’s toes here…)



I personally had an Explorer HV years ago, and if it hadn’t been so loose on me i might still have it. The NDK boats (esp the Greenlander) have always been at the top of my list when I want to be able to paddle without worry of submerged rocks, T-rescue bow banging, etc. They may be heavy, but then look at the M1 Abrams tank…



(course, I paddle a 39lb WS Arctic Hawk now) ;^)

Elaho as well
My Elaho DS also has the rear coaming recessed deeper than the deck - I can comfortably lay out flat on the rear deck. Unfortunately, my Aquanaut, which actually has a lower rear deck than an Explorer, has coaming at the rear the same height as the deck resulting in it digging into my spine when I try to fully lay back.

hv…




hv is a pretty huge boat…i’ve only ever seen 2 folks that it ever actually “fit” and they were pretty dearn big - 250+ and 6’2 minimum…so that’s towards the top end of off the rack shopping…



the issue i have with my explorer and i found the same thing with the romany, was that the seat was more akin to a torture device than a place you’d want to sit for any length of time AND i had a hard time fitting into the boat…so, OUT came the seat and IN went the foam and now, oh so very happy. a little lower in the boat, far more comfortable and fit like a glove.



39 pounds? is that the whole boat? what about the other half?



seriously though…i’ve paddled ph’s and ndk’s for awhile and so am rather used to some heft…in your experience is that a rugged enough layup that you can bounce it offa rocks and such? i don’t know…folks keep kvetching about the weight of these things but if they have a lighter layup are they as rugged?

layup and weight
Some of the weight of Brit layups is the reinforcement on foredeck, along keel line, as well as bow and stern. These are all functional aspects.



You can pull a fully loaded boat over the foredeck, for a rescue, of a Valley, NDK, or P&H boat and not worry about your boat. Though the new Necky layups appear to have the same strength without the weight, I don’t think I would be as confident doing such with an Impex boat.



I think the Valley ProLite layup is a good solution. The hull is carbon/kevlar and diolene with hefty gel coat. The boat weighs less than the standard layup and may actually be more resiliant.

Explorer Fit
That’s actually one area where NDK has done better than anyone else for someone my size - absolutely average female, 5’4" and 135 (most days) pounds. My Explorer LV has an extra small cockpit and a lowered deck that provides fantastic contact over my thighs, as well as making re-entry over the back when needed a whole lot easier. I’ve had women who were wider and shorter as well as a bit taller and thinner in it, both loved the fit. A couple of thinner built guys as well, one who has a regular Explorer and likes how mine fits him.



The regular Explorer is too big for me, though I can paddle it as long as no fancy manuvers are required. It’s plenty big for the majority of guys. I’ve not sat in a HV but saw one at a dealer recently, and I think you’d have to be a very, very large person to have any contact in it.



With all the news, I am mostly very happy that I have my LV. It’s well made, no problems at all (and it spent its first 3 weeks wet in Muscongous Bay every day but three for three weeks solid). It’s still the only full length expedition boat that works absolutely right for someone my size, aside from maybe custom boats, so is really irreplaceable except with another Explorer LV.

Have you even had that boat…

– Last Updated: Jun-23-05 3:37 PM EST –

...anywhere near a scale? Does it have deck rigging, hatches and a seat in it? I'll believe a 40# NDK boat when I see it. I've got a very accurate Chatillon scale available any time you want to see what your boats really weigh.

Come to think of it, with the crappy materials they use, the mere thought of a 40# NDK boat is pretty frightening.

Bankruptcy wouldn’t be surprising…
…considering the beating that NDK has taken in the American market in recent years. Frankly, they deserve it for the poor quality products they’ve been producing. I’m hoping that the new owners are real boat manufacturers rather than pretenders. Let Nigel do the designs and have professionals build and market them. That would be a win-win situation.

salty
Owned a few Brit boats over the years, including NDK. People over here confuse outdated, resin rich, heavy, brittle, construction with tough, durable boats. Not my experience. NDK’s had numerous flaws, but all were fixable. Valley is more consistent. In fairness I’ll say that the N.American boats I’ve owned have also had issues. The only brand of many that I’ve dealt with that was consistently good was Mariner.

As the owner of 2 NDK kayaks
I have to concur. I really enjoy both boats and both were purchased used. The QC really sucks. But I love the Romany in rough conditions and Greenlander is pretty fun too.

ok…ok…
It WAS 39 lbs before I put in the foam front bulkhead and removed the footrests, added 1" foam for thigh and knee bracing/padding and a 3" x 12" x 15" vertical “pillar” behind the cockpit to stiffen the rear deck some. But, considering the rack on the roof of my Ram 4x4 are 80" high, I need light weight!!



No, it is NOT as rugged as most boats, especially the NDK boats. I just am not real hard on my boats and won’t loan this one out to the Tsunami Rangers anytime soon!! (Nor will I loan my Audi TT to an 18 year old kid…)



;^P



Happy paddling!

did he steal away
an old girlfriend or something? really, if he did…let the anger go…you’re better off now.



when i “weigh” a boat i pick it up and say to myself, “self this weighs x# of pounds” and for me, that’s close enough. i don’t NEED to know exactly…it’s either light or it’s heavy…simple enough…so my rather inexact measurement of it’s weight is less than 40 pounds give or take a pound or 2…either that or i am getting particulary buff here in my middlin’ years…if we ever go on the same trip, you pick up janis’ boat and tell me what you think it weighs…please don’t bring your fancy scale along or i will deride you utterly as being just a little too whacko on this topic!



and hold on, come to think of it i weighed it without the hatch covers, seat, deck rigging and rdf’s…oh yeah and i was on the moon…yeah, that’s the ticket.

I figured as much
Well, at least you’re honest about it. I’m going to keep the scale in the car, just in case… :wink:



BTW, there’s no anger involved, merely disgust. I’m a Quality Assurance Engineer; I can’t help it.

Wife’s LV

– Last Updated: Jun-24-05 11:07 AM EST –

For my wife's Explorer LV, Tom Bergh worked directly with Nigel Dennis to get a boat that was both light and resiliant. Tom's goal was 40lbs. The compromise agrred to was 45.

My ProLite Aquanaut weighs in somewhat more than 50 pounds (my estimate is about 52). My wife's Explorer is noticably lighter. I think Tom and Nigel managed to bring it in at 45.

The brand new Romany I paddled two weeks ago felt even lighter than my wife's LV. It had none of the indicators of an Elite layup (carbon/kevlar bulkheads, graphite seat). It did not have the gobs of excess resin that I have noticed on the interior of other (earlier) NDK boats.

my wife’s lv
has the elite layup but has not seat - they are coming stock with a foam seat and that’s what we wanted anyway…it is a pretty light boat but now brian has a burr under the saddle here and i am going to have to weigh it with the bathroom scale!

If it’s over 45# you owe Brian a
beverage of his choice!

NDK
The people that appear to take so much joy in NDK bashing perplex me. By the shear volume of your posts on this subject year after year, it is clear that some folks (you know who you are) have a great deal of fervor for maligning the product? Truly, I don’t understand. If you don’t like the product, don’t buy one. But, to bash NDK in every single post is getting tiresome is it not???



I have a 2004 Explorer that I am thrilled with, its QC is excellent. I had a 2001 Explorer that was very poorly constructed. I was happy with the first one and very happy with the second. No product is perfect for everyone, but certainly the NDK boats fit the bill for some of us.

I agree
I have paddled with Nigel and found him a very low key guy, who just wants to paddle. I do not think he ever intended on or desires to mass produce kayaks. He designed and built kayaks for his needs and then alot of others wanted them and I think he has stuggled to keep up with the demand. He believes that the way he manufactures his kayaks is the best way for expedition use, many do not agree but he is the one making them. I have worked at a kayak shop and know that other manufactures had problems as well. We seemed to sell alot of NDK because all of the instructors used them, most of the problems were cosmetic, except for the seat hangers giving out. Other brands had leaky hatch covers and leaky bulkheads which I feel are much harder to fix. I have 1 NDK and I am thinking about buying another.



Steve

Why complain?

– Last Updated: Jun-28-05 10:38 AM EST –

Here are a couple of good reasons.

First off, people who are not familiar with NDK kayaks but are considering purchasing one have a need to know about the problems they have. Wouldn't YOU want to know about serious problems with a product BEFORE you plunk down your money? Once you know about the issues and what to look for, you can make an informed purchase.

Second, if no one complains, what incentive is there for NDK to improve the quality of the products? When the word gets out that a product has problems, sales decline and the manufacturer is forced to do something about it. That's the way the free market works. Do you think that NDK would have made any of the improvements they claim to have made without market pressure?

People come here looking for information. They should be able to find the good, the bad and the ugly about whatever product they're interested in. Sites like this are effectively the "watchdogs" of the industry.

BTW, it's not "bashing" when it's the truth. It's simply being honest.

All sides post

– Last Updated: Jun-28-05 3:19 PM EST –

For as long as I've been on p.net the threads about NDK have included posts from many perspectives.

Though my primary boat is a Valley, my wife's is an Explorer LV, I plan on acquiring an NDK Romany in the near future. I have leanred much from the threads here. They have informed my decisions and are not inconsistent with the converstions I have had with a number of paddlers, coaches and outfitters.



Don’t buy English
All three had “pigeon droppings” of excess resin throughout. If I’m shelling out $2,800 for a new kayak, it had better be perfect. I accept nothing less, so I bought a Canadian built boat that has proven to be every bit as capable and tough (And 10 lbs lighter). I don’t regret my decision, because it opened my eyes to other options that for me are better.



Boy these English kayaks sound really nice, don’t they? NOT! Buy American or Canadian and get superior quality and workmanship. Accept nothing less.