About those Red/Green lights
I see what you are all saying, but I have an issue with them because…
If I display Red/Green Bow lights, another boat approaching me who HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY may incorrectly determine that I have the capability to yield the right of way with reasonable speed.
With a constant white light, I may incorrectly be judged to be at anchor, but in those cases all approaching craft will(SHOULD) be manuervering to avoid me…
If I have to choose…
Single white light elevated above and to the rear of my left shoulder on a pole…(360 visibility without interfering with my night vision).
My boat and PFD also have Hi Vis reflective tape and lines…
And yes, I paddle at night…often at 2:30 in the morning, at 17 degrees, in and around the Barge Channels…
what a pompous jerk
You’ve become a tiresome ass with this chip on your shoulder.
You yourself admit to some vagueness between the regs, how a CG officer will treat the situation, and local regs. Do you suppose the OP is just a bit slow on the uptake and isn’t being “arrogant” or any of the other things you called him? Maybe he just needs more help and less ridicule from someone who should know. After all, you’ve insulted him three times now and he hasn’t called you a prick; I’d have written you off already.
Some kayaker really must have ruined your day. Just run one over already and get it out of your system. “Captain”.
Perfect!!
That's my take on it as well. A white light that is always on surely meets the criterium for being displayed in time to prevent a collision. That can't be any different, according to the rules, than what I usually do, which is turn it on when the approaching motorboat is still a mile a way.
But would you be anchored
in the middle of a channel or in front of an inlet or entrance to a river or the entrance to a marina? That single white light that says you are at anchor could really cause confusion at night. If you want to use that single white light then get the red and green lights also and eliminate all the confusion. That is the reason for the regs and why they should be followed. Salty is not posting anything other than the truth and also years of experience and learning what is right and wrong. If you are going to use lights then use what is correct and not what ever you feel like.
Thanks Salty for your continual effort to educate paddlers on what is right and wrong. Like the paddlers that think they have the right of way because they are paddling and then cut in front of tug with a barge. So keep up the fight if one person learns from it it is worth it.
Thank you
I am a long time paddler as well, but folk forget that. Been a pro in the industry of kayaking for some time.
The point you make is demonstrative of the lack of thought for others. It’s all self focused with no intent to understand the bigger context, or explore how their self righteous interpretaion of things could cause other mariners confusion. That’s what I disrespect.
It’s the same mentality that has them in the shipping lanes in the fog, or spread out across a busy channel, or crossing the bow of a 100 ft. boat or ferry from the port.
And most are lousy paddlers to boot. Some come here for affirmation to do “their thing”, not to learn.
They get confused by facts.
stop enabling him
He's a nice resource but in this thread he belittles others and assigns motivation for their reasoning and questions. It's possible to impart knowledge without transmitting resentment or ridicule.
That was my take on it as well
Boats of such-and-such a size are REQUIRED to have nav lights, but that is bigger than the typical kayak. The next best clause that seems to apply is for row boats which states you have to have a white light ready to show in time to prevent a collision. Since the Colregs were written for another century they speak of lanterns. Unless you’re lighting it at the last minute, a lantern gives off a constant light. I don’t see how a single white 360 light then could be inconsistent/anything but consistent with the Colregs.
Or the CG could do what I’ve been recommending for years: clear up the confusion and make the rules concerning kayaks more explicit. Like they did with jet skis (there’s a precedent).
“Take a boating class …
You might actually learn a thing or two.”
Then again, you might not:
I took the local boating class from the Coast Guard Auxiliary. When this question came up, no one knew what to do. Mind you, this is Monterey, California. There is a Coast Guard station here. It was in the station. And no one knew.
Boats of such-and-such a size are required to have nav lights, that is true, but that is bigger than the typical kayak.
The next best clause that seems to apply is for a boat under oars which states you have to have a white light ready to show in time to prevent a collision. Since the Colregs were written for another century they speak of lanterns. Unless you’re lighting it at the last minute, a lantern gives off a continuous light. So I don’t see how a single white 360 light could be anything but consistent with the Colregs.
Or the CG could do what I’ve been recommending for years and simply clear up the confusion and make the rules concerning kayaks more explicit. Like they did with jet skis. They establish a separate category for jet skis (PWC) and discuss them separately. To end the confusion. So there’s a precedent.
By not clarifying the issue, the one fostering bad information is the Coast Guard.
I freely admit to a bad attitude toward
sea kayakers who don’t know what they are doing and have no regard for others on the water. You spend the time on the water I do in my role and see if you don’t get a little pissy.
May not be PC, but that’s where I’m at. I have at least taken the time to be part of the solution and share accurate info. Could give a shit whether that’s sensitive enough for you.
I think that’s what he means by
belittling others and assigning motives:
If I night paddled in your area (something I’d like to do) with a white light on my deck, you might assume I “didn’t know what I was doing” and “had no regard for others on the water”.
But I’ve taken the CG Auxiliary boaters’ course at the Coast Guard station in Monterey, California–a town that knows something about boating–and THEY couldn’t figure out what clause a kayak fell under. The best we could come up with was a flashlight or a lantern. A flashlight or a lantern. The flashlight part is clear, but lantern is listed there too, right along side it.
The closest thing to that today is a continuous white light (a “lantern”). So I can paddle with a flashlight in my pocket and stop paddling and pull it out. Or I can hold it in my teeth. Or I can have a “lantern”. You favor the flashlight, I favor the “lantern”. And the Colregs allow for (specify) each.
The fact that people are asking about this, taking classes and discussing it I think shows that they care. The CG could help by clarifying the issue. Like they did with issues surrounding PWC.
(FWIW, I’ve met salty and in person he is very nice.)
Personally I take no offense…
He has a viewpoint and I have mine.
With varying speeds of multiple craft, the decision on when and in what direction to shine your light (a Flashlight IS directional) to avoid a collision simply adds risk that you do not have to take…I will continue to use a 360 degree constant on light…judge me by that single light all you want…I’m looking both ways before I cross a channel just like I do when I cross a street on foot…and I don’t drift in the center of an intersection any more than I’d sit in the middle of one on a public street either…
Seeing vs being seen
Aside from the mandatory lights for being seen, I carry two lights for seeing: a headlamp, and a powerful bike headlight (Cateye HL EL 530) that happens to be waterproof. Very helpful for seeing things on shore and obstacles in the water. The headlamp is really useful for reloading your kayak on your car after dark. I use these same lights for kayaking, biking, hiking, and camping.
Consider this
Rule 20 (b) The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights which cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.
And then, this one-
Rule 30
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:
1.
1. in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
2. at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.
(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.
Seem clear to me. Lights have meaning to identify vessel class and action. Rule 20 makes it clear you cannot pick and choose your favorite.
Contraband?
Or just for anchoring our kayaks from dusk to dawn?
http://media.rei.com/media/212955.jpg
http://www.glacierbaysports.com/cart/images/sea%20light.jpg
http://casanovasadventures.com/catalog/watersports/02-Hydrostar-Light-Live-01-Detail.jpg
wonder about Rule 36 …
… Signals to Attract Attention .
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=rule3637
I wonder what concievable light display(s) “that can not be confused” with any other nav. light display , could be used to attract attention of other vessels so the other vessels have you in thier attention (attention as in “SEE YOU” are there) .
Also wonder if the words “Attract Attention” may have special meaning in maritime rules other than simply the act of making certain you have another vessels attention (in the case of lights , I could easily comprehend this as simply making sure the other vessel sees you and knows you’re there … basically , you’ve gotten thier attention) .
There should be no reason for the other vessel to understand this “attract attention” as a distress signal , but they might believe you could be in need of assistence or wish them to approach you . I find no wording or further explanation in this Rule 36 that could give another vessel the idea you desire thier assistence or approach .
As for nav. light schemes applicable to a paddled craft , it seems straight forward and clear to me that Rule 25(d) “vessel under oars” is the applicab;e rule , and no other .
Back to Rule 36 , I wonder if for example a blue (or non nav.color) “SLOW” (3-5 sec. interval) flashing light could be applicable/used to simply attract attention (ie, be noticed) .
Key word…auxilliary
CALL your local official USCG office and there will be ZERO ambiguity! Auxilliary = VOLUNTEERS who mean well but…
Auxilliary = VOLUNTEERS who mean well
but …
are now retired.
Two out of two of our instructors were former career USCG, Salty. This is Monterey.
When we used to ask, you’d just say it was “in the Colregs.” Not the answer of someone confident of his answer. Someone confident would just give the answer.
It looks like otterslide has successfully triangulated his way through to a valid conclusion. My question: Why should we have to triangulate our way there? Why can’t it be clearer? Three years and seven threads later we have an answer, but–when it comes to safety–is that really what we want? Why not just provide a simple unambiguous answer up front in the Colregs?
But I like your challenge, Salty. I’ll do that. I’ll call the station and see what they say and get back to you with the answer.
being noticed
Maybe I misunderstand what you're hoping to do, but if by "attract attention" you just mean that you want other boats to see you at night, so they can avoid you, the best way to do that is to show proper Nav lights, IMO. You could use a single tri-color light (shows white behind, and red and green to the appropriate sides of the bow), or just an all-around white, displayed in time to avoid collision. (I'm up in the air as to whether that means it can be left on all the time or not.)
If you want to "attract attention", as in get help, then a white light flashing at a rate of more than 60/min is recognized as a distress signal. (strobe for instance).
my favorites
Princeton Tec Attitude or Impact II handhelds. 4AAA cell flashlights that are small enough to fit into a pfd pocket/sleeve. Terrifically waterproof and tough and will run for days with useful amount of light. In a pinch the Impact II is decent for signaling.
Princeton Tec Impact XL handheld. 4AA flashlight that’s a bigger version of the Impact II. With a 1watt LED you’re getting useful signalling for 1/2 miles away and illumination of things 100’ away. Very tough and with Lithiums it’s light and will last a long time.
Above one watt and you get into heat dissipation problems for LEDs and the need for more or bigger batteries. I’ve used this one and it’s a worthwhile replacement for the ubuiquitous 6v lantern flashlight.
http://www.uwkinetics.com/products/sl4-eled
For running lights these are great
http://tek-tite.com/src/product_info.php?id=2162
with one of the white handhelds above on the back deck pointing aft.
Many times I’ve given the answer
and asked folk to refer to Rule 25 in the Colregs. I’m not a hand holder, and not responsible for doing peoples homework. Over and over and over I have told folk that Rule 25 allows for them to run standard running lights instead of an all round torch ready to be shone.
It seems blatantly clear to me, and Otterslide, who is a legit mariner simply reinforced my posts as he has done in the past.
But it seems incredibly confusing to people here who want to do their own thing.
And I really don’t care other than to satisfy my internal need to guide accurately for those who wish to follow the Rules. I suspect those folk do follow up and get it sorted out.
The USCG has big issues to deal with and my experience says thay may not care much if one has an all round light or not. It depends on how anal they choose to be and I’ve seen both ultra anal and pretty chill.
I’ve received many emails privately from folk here thanking me as well as a USCG search and rescue person for thanking me for posting. She said her group in Alaska appreciated my postings.
Apparently I need to be more sensitive…