"It is a bit more work than a more stable boat, and I notice the difference if I am paddling all day in confused conditions. But it is such a blast."
That's what I think would be the key if I would like a boat like that or not: if the tradeoff would be right for me b/w how much attention it needs and what it offers over a more stable boat in terms of "fun".
I usually do not spend a whole day paddling (very rare), but a 12-15 or even 20 miles in 1/2 a day is not uncommon for me. If I could feel comfortable with it over 3-6 hours of active paddling in choppy waters (3-5 foot short period and steep often breaking wind waves), I'd be content.
In the Rapier 18 I can paddle in similar conditions but it is still a struggle (unless I am going downwid). I spend too much energy to keep it upright and I do not dare take it too far out off-shore (yet).
In contrast, in the 22" Perseption Sonoma 13.5 that I usually take in such conditions (and enjoy them in it) I don't think much of waves like that - almost no need to think about balance and bracing in that boat or in a boat like the Tempest 170 that I had before it. Part of it is that they sort of "dance" with the waves, find their way over and around the bumps, and roll really easy. Where a stiffer and higher volume boat like the Rapier can handle such conditions fine but (unless surfing downwind where it is a blast) is not nearly as enjoyable for me in them.
I'm just scratching my head and thinking if it would be "too much boat" for me if I were to paddle something like the Nordkapp LV compared to what I feel entirely comfortable with (a Tempest 170 or 165 for instance or the Sonoma I currently have).
Solo Boat… If out to raise hell with a small group of better paddlers in the ocean it was a blast. In a group of mixed paddlers or as a guide boat more attention had to be paid to the boat. Stopping in even light conditions it was difficult to turn around in the boat and look back to check on the other boats.
My favorite boat, I love to paddle it and use it more that any other. I don't find it difficult and the more I use it the more I like it. Check in with me in another two years. :-)
Still love it When I demoed one I found it an exciting boat and was sold. Yes, it required me to pay attention more than some other boats, and still does, but I don’t look on that as a bad thing. My skills have grown. My earlier aprehension in rough stuff has given way to confidence, now that the boat has convinced me lighten up and trust it to do its thing, which it does admirably. I don’t find weathercocking to be a problem; it responds well to a little edge. It seems to like a little skeg in following seas, which are great fun. It’s a breeze to roll. I’m sure it has more potential than I have the skills to exploit at this point. I have other boats for other moods or types of paddling, but the Nordlow definitely is one of my 2 favorites.
I’ve watched a paddling partner as he’s used his Nordkapp LV over the last two years. For the first 4-5 trips, if there was significant swell or chop he had trouble stopping to eat or pee without rafting up. But after those first few trips, he had no problem. It seemed like it was just a matter of adapting to it. He’s used it often for solo day-trips of 25 -30 miles in the open ocean, so it’s definitely not just used as a play boat in his case. One thing I’ve noticed is that compared to my Impex Force 4, the Nordkapp LV seems to have a higher-volume bow that is really great at riding up over swell or chop when heading up-wind or cross-wind. I feel that the Force 4 may make slightly better time for the same effort for straight-ahead paddling in calm conditions, but it seems like the Nordkapp LV does as well or better as soon as there’s swell or chop. (Of course, another factor is that he’s a better paddler than me.)
good point about the WW but… you’re mistaken about using it for teaching. While I primarily teach whitewater and greenland style kayaking/rolling these days, when I used to do the Euro symposium circuit, I taught out of the LV (and the Sillhouette before that).
Unless I’m standing up in my boat, I’m not sure why I would need an obscenely stable boat to teach from. How much stability do you really need to demonstrate a paddle float or cowboy reentry anyways? I’d always prefer the more manueverable boat for teaching which is where the LV really shines.
Some still have one I bought my LV in the fall of 07 around the time of that thread and am even happier with it now than when I first bought it.
I think initially Douglas Wilcox sold quite a few Nordkapp LV’s with his glowing write up and the sexy Nordkapp on the beach picture. However it seems the reality is that the NK LV is a more challenging boat for a lot of people than Douglas made it sound like.
For me lowering the seat was a must to get the best from my LV. Secondary now feels quite locked in and there is that extra level of feel while on edge.
All in all I love mine and have no desire to get something more borin…err “stable”.
Yes, Douglas Wilcox's review was pretty presuasive - though he was honest about the transparent secondary and the need to brace more than usual.
Though he loves the boat, even Douglas Wilox does not have a Nordlow as his only boat. He uses his Quest for long journeys and certain other outings.
I've noticed a number of coaches on the UK board noting that they love their 'kapps, but use their Aquanaut or some such when coaching.
This is a boat that has surprised many in how after feeling confidence inspiring in moderate conditions became unforgiving in challenging stuff. (Of course, the line between moderate and challenging moves according to the paddler.)
LV I’ve had mine less than a year but pleased with it.
It is designed for 20+ knot winds in open water. I’ve had it in lots of wind and it’s truly amazing.
It covers 15 miles in open ocean probably better than anything else.
Several of my kayak friends questioned why I got the NordLV… it doesn’t track on rails, etc, but when the conditions pick up over 20 knots and the waves over 4’, their rail tracking yaks are nose diving, lee cocking, end overs, and pretty much headed back to the beach.
It’s unstable if you put it on a hard edge and sweep stoke, but for an all around coastal paddling kayak that can cover some distance in no time flat, playful, it’s tough to beat.
Photo platform Wow Yakwise nice surf pic, someone in a real stable boat must have snapped that one…
Too bad the really hairy ones didn’t come out;)
I think it is fair to say I feel a great affection for my Nordkapp LV.
For me it allows me to get out into hairy water but is secure and capable.
It is fast enough to get out to the ugly stuff without wearing me down. It is also fast enough to get you home against the tide at the end of a long day.
It is safe, dry and trims beautifully with the skeg.
It is beautiful, lively, sassy and full of life.
It teaches me something new every time I paddle her.
A Romany might be as stable and reliable as a Buick (and twice as boring but a Nordkapp LV is like a Lancia Stratos.
Yw-I am probably coming down next week for the 8th. if you want to do something before/after let me know.
Among my favorite comments about the nature of Nordkapps which I think is very true of the Nordlow:
Gordon warns "It will force you to do things the right way". A boat which automatically punishes sloppy paddling. An on-board coach. With a stick! Actually, that's just what I need.
And:
"If you choose something else, you'd always wonder if you should have had a Nordkapp".
lowered seat again Valley sent me a replacement seat pan when the first one cracked on the side. The replacement had about 3/4’’ more foam at the back and front that raised the seat pan about 1/2’’.
I just lowered it again about as low as it can get, so that the very bottom where your butt sits is on 1/4 inch foam that contacts the bottom of the hull. I had to grind down a bolt that sticks down (just in case) and removed about and inch of foam from the back and front, and added two shims about 1/4’’ where it mounts to the deck.
Now it’s a bit lower than the original and is a noticeable improvement today in choppy ocean conditions.
Well… I think the LV is a great boat. I also tend to agree with a lot that the poster said in the link to that glowing review written two years ago. I find the author of that post is pretty much spot-on in his assessment and his review really goes a long way to impress me that the guy really knows his stuff.
I love the boat but did sell it.
I found that for me it was great for all but paddling in the surf zone which is where I like to paddle pretty much all the time when i get to the coast.
I loved it for flat water, and for windy/choppy days on the bay. But in the surf…big surf…I found it broached easily and was not a highly capable boat as some of the others I have paddled in such conditions (romany, explorer, aquanaut, avocet, greenlander pro, etc). I just found it very unstable in really big water.
In chop and wind it was great though.
That is my assessment but I also think it may have something to do with body weight too. At 200 pounds and being top heavy it may be a function of my dimensions. Don’t know.
I also was not a big fan of the cockpit fit. Not sure what exactly it was but just was not a good fit for me and I think that fit is very important.
Certainly a very unique and superior boat.
I have never paddled the full size Nordkapp and really would like to.
I’ve got an old style ocean cockpit Nordkapp HM which you are welcome to try.
I would anticipate that, compared to the LV, you’ll find it faster, having less primary & less secondary stability, and harder to turn. It’s great in rough water. The height of the rear aspect of the cockpit coaming makes lay back rolls tough–you’ve got to lift your butt out of the seat.
Send me a PM via the CPA forums and we can arrange an outing. It is NOT for sale!
My first “good” boat was an HM… …and it was a good learning boat. As you say, it’s great in rough water, especially if you lower the seat. Unfortunately, that makes the high aft deck issue even worse. One of the other things I learned is that the built-in skeg is a serious liability under some conditions and I would not buy an HM again, for that reason.
paddled the full size Nordkapp "There are so many versions of this British classic that you really need to know which incarnation you are talking about!"
Old HM It’s a 1995–pre-Jubilee. In the Jubilee, and then again the later H2O models, some changes in the hull design were made, so the boats do feel somewhat different in the water. The older models are reported to have less primary stability, but some paddlers like their feel in rough water.
These boats were designed to carry a load far fast in rough water. They do that very well–as well or better than any other kayak even today. There are other things they don’t do so well.
"carry a load far fast in rough water" Best summary statement of the original Nordkapp design ethic I’ve seen.
Jubilee and post Jubilee Nordkapps try to retain that attribute along with being a bit more ‘forgiving’.
Recent model 'kapps still demand more of the paddler than boats whose initial ethic is to be more confidence inspiring - e.g NDK Explorer, Valley Aquanaut, P&H Cetus, TideRace Xcite/Xplore, etc…
but a Nordkapp LV is like a Lancia Stratos.