lowered seat again
Valley sent me a replacement seat pan when the first one cracked on the side. The replacement had about 3/4’’ more foam at the back and front that raised the seat pan about 1/2’’.
I just lowered it again about as low as it can get, so that the very bottom where your butt sits is on 1/4 inch foam that contacts the bottom of the hull. I had to grind down a bolt that sticks down (just in case) and removed about and inch of foam from the back and front, and added two shims about 1/4’’ where it mounts to the deck.
Now it’s a bit lower than the original and is a noticeable improvement today in choppy ocean conditions.
Well…
I think the LV is a great boat. I also tend to agree with a lot that the poster said in the link to that glowing review written two years ago. I find the author of that post is pretty much spot-on in his assessment and his review really goes a long way to impress me that the guy really knows his stuff.
I love the boat but did sell it.
I found that for me it was great for all but paddling in the surf zone which is where I like to paddle pretty much all the time when i get to the coast.
I loved it for flat water, and for windy/choppy days on the bay. But in the surf…big surf…I found it broached easily and was not a highly capable boat as some of the others I have paddled in such conditions (romany, explorer, aquanaut, avocet, greenlander pro, etc). I just found it very unstable in really big water.
In chop and wind it was great though.
That is my assessment but I also think it may have something to do with body weight too. At 200 pounds and being top heavy it may be a function of my dimensions. Don’t know.
I also was not a big fan of the cockpit fit. Not sure what exactly it was but just was not a good fit for me and I think that fit is very important.
Certainly a very unique and superior boat.
I have never paddled the full size Nordkapp and really would like to.
Matt
If you want to try a full size Nordkapp
Matt–
I’ve got an old style ocean cockpit Nordkapp HM which you are welcome to try.
I would anticipate that, compared to the LV, you’ll find it faster, having less primary & less secondary stability, and harder to turn. It’s great in rough water. The height of the rear aspect of the cockpit coaming makes lay back rolls tough–you’ve got to lift your butt out of the seat.
Send me a PM via the CPA forums and we can arrange an outing. It is NOT for sale!
Bob
old style ocean cockpit Nordkapp HM
That would be an experience…
What era HM is your 'kapp? Is it a pre-Jubilee?
I’ve been told the old 'kapps (pre-Jubilee) are quite different from the newer.
My first “good” boat was an HM…
…and it was a good learning boat. As you say, it’s great in rough water, especially if you lower the seat. Unfortunately, that makes the high aft deck issue even worse. One of the other things I learned is that the built-in skeg is a serious liability under some conditions and I would not buy an HM again, for that reason.
1 Like
paddled the full size Nordkapp
"There are so many versions of this British classic that you really need to know which incarnation you are talking about!"
http://www.ukseakayakguidebook.co.uk/nordkapp/art_nordkapp.htm
Old HM
It’s a 1995–pre-Jubilee. In the Jubilee, and then again the later H2O models, some changes in the hull design were made, so the boats do feel somewhat different in the water. The older models are reported to have less primary stability, but some paddlers like their feel in rough water.
These boats were designed to carry a load far fast in rough water. They do that very well–as well or better than any other kayak even today. There are other things they don’t do so well.
"carry a load far fast in rough water"
Best summary statement of the original Nordkapp design ethic I’ve seen.
Jubilee and post Jubilee Nordkapps try to retain that attribute along with being a bit more ‘forgiving’.
Recent model 'kapps still demand more of the paddler than boats whose initial ethic is to be more confidence inspiring - e.g NDK Explorer, Valley Aquanaut, P&H Cetus, TideRace Xcite/Xplore, etc…
lowered seat
did help. I’m about 190 and 6’3’’…
Yesterday BobW and I got out in some pretty big conditions… true 6’ surf and swells and we both thought a good many were 8’ and over 20 knots of wind so that kite boarders were getting yanked up over 20 feet in the air…
What was really weird is that thee of us had NordLVs… one guy who was just getting back into kayaking couldn’t get out in the surf… I was out there waiting for them in these monster swells until Bob got out and we ran downwind about 7 miles and surf landed… they did great with big following seas and wind…
For all that’s said about the instability of the NordLV it was great for getting out through the surf and is a great all around great kayak… The back deck is a little high and not a good idea to get caught laying back in big surf…
No pics of the bigger swells but this gives some indication of the size of the swells… this one is of Bob…
Both of us got back in without catching the big breakers but I got rolled twice pretty hard in the secondary breakers.
This is Bob and me in the white deck…
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/islanders66/kayaking/PC090209.jpg
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/islanders66/kayaking/PC090168.jpg
Tears and Flapdoodle
Yup I think that there is much talk about the Nkapp LV being tippy etc. but as Sea Kayaker said, The Nordkapp (both H2O & LV) are boats for an advancing intermediate to expert paddler.
Nordkapp’s are not a beginners boat.
While I am no expert, I do have an adventurous spirit and love rough water. Every time I push myself in the LV I learn something new and get that much better. I own a perfectly nice almost new glass Avocet, but haven’t paddled it once since my LV showed up in 07. Perhaps some day I will bring it with me to the beach just to compare but really I am having too much fun to bother.
Wednesday Magic Seaweed was calling 5.5’ surf and 20K Winds while the Edisto Buoy reported 11" swells.
The biggest issue was punching out through the breakers. The rest was smooth sailing in big lumpy water.
We were confident enough in our boats to play around rolling and generally monkeying around taking pictures and whooping it up 500 yards off shore.
I paddled along enthralled by the majesty of towering swells. Giddy as a huge wall of water swept me up 10’ in the air giving me an amazing view only to drop me back into a canyon surrounded by walls of green.
We both had ear to ear grin plastered across our faces the whole trip (a trip that ended too soon).
Always been true
"…boats for an advancing intermediate to expert paddler"
Valley has always been clear about that as has Peter Orton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXilcmGCLxk&feature=related
advanced?
When they say a boat is for an advanced paddler, I think that the boat is difficult to manage. For instance, the Tiderace or Rockpool are direct competitors to the NLV but have a bit more stability. This seems to me only an advantage. What advantage accrues from very low stability? Saying that low stability forces one to learn is hardly an advantage.
it’s all relative
to your skill level. I think once you learn to roll reliably you will also change the way you look at tippier boats. You will no longer worry about tippiness and instead you might appreciate how the boat responds to your body movement and paddle stroke.
Advanced??
I’m not sure that the distinction is that the boat is “hard to manage”. If a boat is simply hard to manage, no one will want to paddle it.
The real distinction, I think, lies in the sensitivity of the boat to inputs from the paddler and the water. A beginner paddler will tend provide cruder inputs, in timing, positioning, balance, trim, and force applied. To the extent that these inputs are “off”, the boat will respond in undesired ways. Put a beginner in a sensitive boat, and they’ll capsize or be unable to move the boat where they want. Put a skilled paddler in the same boat, and that sensitivity enables the paddler to manage tempestuous conditions with confidence or move more efficiently in less demanding conditions.
Bob
OK
Maybe I should not have used the term “hard to manage”. But given two advanced and skilled paddlers in the NLV and the Tiderace, both 21 inches in beam. The Tiderace will have a bit more stability. That stability is only an advantage, giving superior feedback in rough water. One may prefer the NLV for other reasons, but that extra teeny bit of stability is just better.
Some
of us don’t think the Nordkapps are unstable. so why would we care wheather another boat is more stable or not?
Going with Your logic…how about a Pungo?
Best wishes
Roy
costs for stability
Increased stability may mean it takes more effort to lean the boat, or it could mean the boat heels more when a steep wave passes under the hull.
I’ve not paddled a Nordkapp, but I do prefer hulls that some people would call “tippy” because they don’t strike me as tippy, and I like the easy leaning and less heeling on “slopes”.
Some of it has to do with experience, in so much as I doubt any total neophyte would be comfortable in a 21 inch boat of any sort. But beyond that it’s just preference. Some paddlers prefer the design aspects that go along with “tippy” hulls, and others (equally as “advanced”) will choose a touch more stability.
one reason
– Last Updated: Dec-11-09 3:46 PM EST –
The Nordkapp’s quick acceleration could have been the difference in getting out through the surf or not. I was able to hold my position about 10 feet in front of some breaking waves because IMO there was no way any kayak could have made it through that next 10 feet, and waited for an opening to make a dash out. Once again the NLV’s stealth and speed was impressive.
Bob took this one right before we launched.
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/islanders66/kayaking/PC090163.jpg
we had a blast out there. I'm still learning as well. Bob had a nice approach on the landing that a bit rougher area than the launch.
“That stability is only an advantage,”
– Last Updated: Dec-11-09 6:36 PM EST –
Only in some cases. I've paddled a TideRace Xcite and my Nordkapp LV in clapotis, stiff winds and beam seas. The Nordlow moves more quickly and smoothly through such conditions.
The Xcite requires less participation and tolerates sloppy technique better in conditions, but I find the Nordlow is more responsive even if of my sustained confidence may not always be up to the boat.
That both boats have an overall beam of 21" does not translate into them having anywhere near similar stability profiles. The Xcite has a much boxier hull with much more volume carried towards the ends than the Nordlow. Each feels completely different, IMHO, in the same seas.
I am saying 'different'. I am not asserting that one is better than the other. Both are great boats with quite different personalities.
better or not
wilsoj1 said:
"The Xcite … tolerates sloppy technique better in conditions, but I find the Nordlow is more responsive … "
I have not paddled the Xcite, but tolerating sloppy technique seems to me good. What is wrong with that? Not sure what “more responsive” means. The Nordlow has more rocker than the Xcite so probably turns easier. Is that more responsive, or less stiff tracking? I presume that the chines on the Xcite would make the hull carve turns more precisely. Would that be “more responsive”? I just don’t see any advantage of the tippiness, even if that tippiness is a complete non-issue for a particular paddler. (This is only comparing similar beam boats designed for rough water.)