Not sure what to do with my boat selection, boat that might be too small, sell or keep trying?

Advice
#1

Hello, I’m trying to look for advice on what to do with my sea kayak. I have been kayaking since I was a kid but got really into it, and into sea kayaks for the first time a little over a year ago. Wanting a good boat, I got a new wave sport hydra 145 I got in October. Now despite every possible adjustment with the outfitting I’m having a really hard time fitting comfortably inside. I find within an hour I am looking for a place to get out and stretch. If I go out for several hours, when I get back I am sore and my legs half asleep. It goes away after a minute but it feels awful and I feel decrepit, despite only being 36.

I have gotten used to the backband, but I’m finding my legs are so secure inside (I’m 6’3 210 lbs) I can barely move them at all. I have spent a good deal of time, hours and hours, trying to make sure my posture and paddle form are correct. I’ve tried stretching and I am trying to lose weight, but its just a painful experience right now. Something about the seat just seems off for me but I’m not sure. I have tried adding foam/towels/ect under different parts of my legs, I’ve tried moving the foot pedals up and down, and I’ve tried cushions and none of these seem to work. I have moved the hip pads up, or tried removing. These only variously move the areas of pain around.

I know you should sit inside every boat first, but this one the discomfort more so creeps up on me. It seems fine at first and then the seat starts hurting my dominant leg.

I haven’t had this issue with any of the other sea kayaks I’ve tried (an old 17’ perception, a current designs whistler, a prijon kodiak (too big for my needs) all bought and sold on marketplace). Missing those I got an old (2002) ocean scupper pro last month. I can paddle that thing for hours (I’ve done some 3-4 hour trips) with not 5% of the discomfort and jump right out no problem. I can easily stretch my legs out all over the place. It doesn’t track as well and isn’t quite as fast as the wave sport, but I’m making pretty similar times on the normal routes I do.

So should I sell the wave sport or keep trying to make it work? I got it for half off from a kayak store closing in georgia, so I think I could put it on consignment in a store here and not lose a ton of money. I’m not as concerned about the cash as I am having a boat I like, and right now I’m not sure that will be possible with this.

I see some other boats I know are larger on marketplace for like $200, I wonder…

I am thinking I want to try something like a stellar puffin/kingfisher/egret, or maybe a high volume or XL type kayak. What would you do? Thanks.

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#2

If you aren’t comfortable in a boat, there isnt much you can do to expand it. Nobody can answer that but you. Even if it was free, it’ll turn you against kayaking if it isn’t comfortable.

Every person has a different criteria for picking a boat. Mine must be roomy, solid primary stability, and a high back seat. I adapt my paddling environment to the conditions the boat can handle. I enjoy speed, but won’t compromise on comfort. If your goal is speed, then you need to find the most comfortable boat that offers the best performance. If your goal is to paddle the shorelines, a stable boat serves better than a tippy boat. Backbands ate better for spray skirts, rolls, reentries and so on, but I wouldn’t paddle five miles using one. Since I have a high back seat and don’t use a spray skirt, I only paddle in areas that allow me to handle conditions. I have a 145 and a 175 that I use exclusively, depending on conditions. If you want to paddle in gnarly water or surf, your boat has to match the conditions. I want a boat that tracks straight, while many kayakers look for turning ability. I typically only turn more than 90° only once on a trip. You call the shots.

The only advice you can gleen from the forum is how a specific boat behave under certain conditions. Make sure the boat is in your weight range and that you enjoy paddling in it.

1 Like
#3

Looking at the specs online, the deck height is 14" and the cockpit is 36.5"x20.5". Those are all in the roomy, not snug, range. So, it seems like the comfort issue is probably coming from the design and shape of the seat and back rest. If it has a fairly rigid back rest, that could have a shape that just doesn’t work for you. I have had a couple of kayaks where the back rest was just torture no matter what I did. On one, I replaced the back rest with a more flexible back band, and suddenly, it’s one of the most comfortable seats I’ve been in.

#4

A picture or two of your seat and foot pegs might be helpful here. A lot of us have modified by not using a commercial seat, but custom shaped closed cell foam. White water boats and surf kayaks fit very tightly, so this is one way to increase comfort. How close is the forward bulkhead to your seat back? Lots of times those highly engineered supposedly comfortable kayak seats are literally a pain in the a __. If the seat is easy to remove, take it out and experiment a bit.

#6

are these like the redfish custom seats, are their other options? Reading some of these comments I’m thinking is the bottom id seat itself, and not the backband or kayak

#7

Well, you could always go sit in some other kayaks and see if you find them a better fit. Just go to compare fit, not buy. Even better, find a dealer that offers test paddling. Or better yet, take lessons and/or go on a tour where boats are provided. Often the instructor or leader can look at your fit and help you with adjustments. Unless you compare boats, it is hard to know if it is the size or the specific seat, or the position of things. You could take your boat for lessons and see if the instructor can give you insight into how well that boat fits you.

There are many ways to adjust your fit in a kayak. But it takes some experimentation. Seats can be replaced. Foot rest rails can be repositioned often. But if you don’t feel comfortable doing that, then purchasing a different kayak is always an option.

#8

No, I was talking about fitting and carving your own custom seat. This video isn’t real useful about dealing with design for best fit but it’s pretty good.

#9

I have to put cushioning under my thighs/knees to support them, if I don’t within an hour getting tingling in my feet. (Delta now offers an aftermarket kit that allows you to adjust the angle of the seat, accomplishing the same scenario…support the thighs/knees
.)

#10

I built a sea kayak once. It was seaworthy, but I had trouble being comfortable in the boat after about an hour. It is hard to change positions especially with a spray skirt. Canoes allow all kinds of changes in position. I can get up and walk around in my drift boat.

Being uncomfortable is the main reason I gave up on sea kayaks. No place for the dogs was second.

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#11

As you seem fine in other boats, either it is the seat as others said, or something about the hull shape overly confines you. A lower seat position would give you more vertical room through your legs. So either flip it or try a different seat it sounds like.

#12

I experienced the opposite. I always enjoyed canoeing, but switched to kayaks because I need the back support. To me, the real difference between the Tsunami and the Tempest is the seat back. The adjustable seat back in the Tsunami allows me to travel longer distances with more back comfort. However, depending on how it’s adjusted, it can interfere with recovering from a roll or the use of a spray skirt. Remounting from the rear deck is impractical because the back will collapse onto the seat bottom and there isn’t enough room to manuever in the cockpit to return it to upright. Temprst is better when you expect mote e trene positions.

#13

I really appreciate everyones advice. This boat was one of the more expensive things I’ve bought myself that wasn’t a car, a place to stay or school. I am leaning towards flipping it but slight chance I’ll replace seat

#14

There is an article available online that talks bout how to make a new seat and/or make adjustments to current seats to make your boat better. Check out issue #4 (PDF version) at California Kayaker Magazine - South West's source for paddlesports information

If you aren’t that flexible, stretches could also help. Specifically stretches aimed at your hamstrings.

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#15

It’s painful, but sometime more time in the boat will help your body adjust to the boat. As you have been comfortable in other boats can you determine how this new boat differs?

I’d be cautious about making any irreversible changes to the boat. If they do not work you will have a hard time selling it.

It’s nice to have a brand new shiny boat, but unless you can test paddle it, you may find yourself with the problem you have now. A used boat is often half the price of a new one and boats do not change that much from year to year and with minimal care can last for decades. You can often sell a used boat for about what you paid for it. By contrast, once a new boat hits the water it can lose a substantial amount of its resale value.

#16

Is your hydra a standard 145 or a 145 LV? Even the standard 145, with a 23.5" beam, is a little narrow for a big guy. Spec is for medium to large paddler.

I mention this because in the 23 years since I have been regularly using sea kayaks (10 models of my own and a half dozen I rented or borrowed), the only time I experienced painful symptoms like you are reporting was when a friend let me use her late husband’s P & H Vela, which had a 21.5 inch beam, which was an inch narrower than my own P &H kayak at the time, an Easky 15 LV, in which I could be comfortable for hours on the water. Though the stated size range for a Vela is 100 to 230 pounds and I was right in the middle for that, I’m pretty sure I was wider in the posterior area than the slender guy only a few inches taller who actually fit it.

Though the Vela felt great in the water as we launched into some meandering coves on the Maine coast, within 45 minutes I had deep pain in my left hip that radiated down the left leg and my right leg was also getting numb. As was the situation you describe with your Hydra, I really was locked into position and lacked space to stretch either leg or change too much of the position against the foot braces. Fortunately we were paralleling the shore of narrow coves and I was able to pull out on a rock ledge and stretch for a few minutes until I got feeling back and the hip and leg pain faded. Made some adjustments in the rake of the seat back and moved the foot pegs as far back as I could. But in another 45 minutes I had the same pain – felt embarrassed at having to ask to pull ashore again so I tried to grin and bear it, hoping it would either not get worse or go away, while trying to wriggle my hips in the tight cockpit to take the pressure off. Honestly, I had never felt that much pressure on my butt even in the whitewater boats I had owned in earlier years. The pressure was right over your upper buttock over your hip where you can push your thumb and feel your sciatic nerve. The piriformis muscle is adjacent, in fact the piriformis usually passes directly over the sciatic nerve (which is the source of much lower back related leg pain and numbness. Eventually it was bringing tears to my eyes and I had to ask my paddling partner if we could cut short the trip and go back to the launch. We switched boats on another trip and her Romany fit me perfectly with no pain, even though it had the same 21.5" beam! Never had a similar pain and numbness instance with any other kayak before or since.

So I wonder if your problem with the Hydra is, as others are suggesting, that the issue is the seat and something about the way you fit into the cockpit is putting pressure on your piriformis and sciatic from it. Is the seat bottom removable? If so, I’d suggest you try to take it out and replace with a thin closed cell foam cushion, like an Ensolite sleeping bag pad or yoga mat folded in thirds, preferably with an extra fold to elevate your thighs a bit in front and see if that’s any help.

#17

This was one of the better articles I found, a ton of good information in there. I tried everything in that article a couple months back, and I think the next issue has more on outfitting, and the seat is still super uncomfortable. Its fine for about an hour then things are getting numb and/or hurting.

#18

That is really interesting, thanks for the reply. It was like looking in a mirror haha. Really interesting what different designs will do. The old 17’ perception (eclipse, sea lion, shadow? can’t remember) I used for a few months then sold was lower volume but never had this issue. My feet would get a little numb and I could move them around, then was fine.

Mine is the standard 145. I think there is just something about the seat especially and how I fit in there with it. I have most of my height in my legs. Now to see how difficult this seat is to remove.

#19

Looking at the photos online, you may just have to remove the pair of screws just outside of the cockpit coming on each side. Reaching the locknuts on the other end of the screws might be annoying. Then, turn the seat assembly 90 degrees (you might have to force it a bit and let the hull stretch outward as you turn the seat). From there, the seat will probably tilt and lift out. You will likely have to remove any straps that hold the back rest, and might have to remove the backrest entirely first.

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#20

It is easy to add back support to a canoe seat. You can use an ash and wicker support, a chair made for canoes. I like a Crazy Creek chair for long trips like a week.

#21

I initially bought a Mad River Adventure 16 because the seats have a built in adjustable backrest. Since my rotator cuff injury, Paddling on the right (arthritis and permanent damage to muscles) causes discomfort in my left shoulder. Even with the adjustable back rest, the canoe sitting position isn’t as comfortable as the kayak seat. Getting in or out is a chore, but that only happens at the start and finish of a trip.

I’ve spend so much time developing my technique in the kayak, I now prefer the kayak over the canoe. I stll like canoes for shorter leisurely trips to enjoy the scenery but just have to devote the time. Understand and agree with your suggestion, but I fully embrace the kayak because I mostly travel open water. Simply a personal choice on my part and not a suggestion to other paddlers.