Amen to that Keith!
Ocean cockpits are not the kind I want to scramble out of in a hurry. I like a 2x3 inch tab of non slip outdoor tape to the rear of my coaming. Helps the hands stay on the deck and not slip off the wet deck.
Anyone ever try adding chart case loops to your spraydeck?
Augustus Dogmatycus
MMV
That I understand, but
don’t let anyone bully you into thinking that a keyhole is somehow substandard. I was on the ocean cockpit thing for a while, and then I actually paddled one for a few hours, it’s ok and everything, but the fit issues with an ocean can be tackled with minicell foam in almost every case.
That’s because people exit after they
have landed. Exit as you land! Just takes some practice.
Oh C’mon, Keith…
I’ve seen a lot of “bullying” (of the verbal sort, e.g. “if you don’t do/have this, then you’re not…”) but never around forcing (stuffing) someone into an ocean cockpit. 
sing
Yup…
– Last Updated: Oct-28-05 5:49 PM EST –
time the waves. Get close, let one pass, immediatley pop the skirt with one hand, paddle onto the shore, hop quickly out, throw the paddle onto dry land, and pull the boat in the rest of the way. Been able to do this with wave intervals down to about 5 or 6 seconds on a dumpy beach.
sing
Thanks for the input
I’ve got the Ocean cockpit on my SOF but that is impossible to reenter on the water. Heck, it takes me 5 minutes to get into it on dry land.
But I’m sure that it’s quite a bit smaller then the ones on conventional kayaks.
Bob
Jimmy…You are looking for another
boat you won’t use with the others…lol
Paddle easy,
Coffee
As An Unapologetic Yuppie
– Last Updated: Oct-28-05 10:09 PM EST –
I assert my right and duty to participate in conspicious consumption of kayaks and gear. Even if I don't use all that I have. Why? Because I can. I encourage all others to do the same.
One rec boat-does-it-all owners can sneer, be jealous, or indifferent. Tough cookies. Unapologetic I am and shall remain. Yes. I belong to the NRA - National Right to Acquire!
sing
Not jealous…
– Last Updated: Oct-28-05 10:21 PM EST –
You see Longshadow is trying to sell boats so he can buy his wifey a house. I have nothing against that, his motives are just. But why start to buy another when you haven't even sold the ones you are trying to unload....
And when it comes to his wife... I would suggest he puts "another" boat on hold till she gets her house. After all I think they make a good couple, I would hate to see that "couple" become a "single" over a boat
Paddle easy,
Coffee
Ohhhh…
I think you should have just be “indifferent” at least on this thread. Or, post your concern directly to Jim.
As far as I am concerned, Jim is grown man. I’ll not get into his business of what he should or should not do. He asked about an Ocean Cockpit I and others simply answered.
sing
Well, not really
BBK cockpits are sized in-between a real ocean cockpit and a small keyhole. I don’t like the size as it has all the disadvantages of both with none of the advantages of either. It’s neither as easy to enter as a keyhole, nor as secure as an ocean cockpit. Finding spray skirts that fit can be a hassle. IMO, it’s a bad compromise.
Older Nigel Foster boats built by Watermark in Holland also have the same size cockpit. It appears that the new CD Rumour will have it, too.
“Ocean” vs. round
The Greenlander has a round cockpit that requires a special round skirt. VCP’s “ocean” cockpit - which is the defacto “standard” - is almond shaped.
No need to "corkscrew"
Having to turn from a prone position to a supine one is the most awkward part of a T rescue and it’s unnecessary. With ocean cockpit boats, it’s much easier to reenter face-up, between the boats. It puts you in the perfect position to slide into the cockpit without any twisting. People with limited upper body strength can often do a between-the-boats reentry even if they have problems with the traditional from-the-side reentry, since the legs are used to lift one’s body out of the water. Additional advantages to this reentry method are that the “victim” can see what’s going on, communication is easier and once the “victim” is up on the decks of the boats, they’re in a very stable position where they can sit up and relax and catch their breath if necessary.
Exactly
It’s no big deal, it just takes a bit of practice.
That’s the worst-case example
– Last Updated: Oct-29-05 8:37 AM EST –
The ocean cockpit in the Nordkapp is a horrible implementation, as the aft deck is WAY too high for easy entering and exiting. The longer your legs, the worse the situation is. None of the other currently available ocean cockpit boats suffer from the same problem. Rather, they have low, flat-ish aft decks that keep the paddler's weight low and make sliding in and out of the small cockpit very easy.
BTW, if you use a Greenland paddle, it's a simple matter to sit on it (or hold it on the deck with your hands), which provides a buoyant outrigger than allows you to enter/exit the boat while it's on the water.
While I agree about “bullying”…
…I don’t agree with you about fit. There’s no way to create the same fit and security of an ocean cockpit in a keyhole cockpit, unless you’re willing to effectively convert your keyhole to an ocean cockpit by blocking off the keyhole section. Having a full width pad across your knees/thighs provides versatility and security that you cannot have with a keyhole. Whether you use it or not is another matter entirely.
As a humorous example, when I went to demonstrate a Greenland roll to a friend using his Avocet, I promptly fell out of the boat as soon as I inverted. I was so used to being able to roll with my knees comfortably centered under an ocean cockpit that I didn’t even think about the fact that I had to keep them wedged under the thigh braces in the Avocet.
How Big/Small Are We Talking?
most “standard” ocean cockpits are something like 16"x20" in an oval shape. I did see Maligiaq’s SOF which had like a round 16" cockpit. That is pretty small.
sing
Coffee,
I appreciate your concern, however unfounded it may be. I would also appreciate it if you would voice those concerns directly to me rather than broadcasting them to the world, literally. But since you chose to concoct a problem and then air it here, I guess I have to defend myself here too. I’m not selling boats to buy a house; that’s silly. I’m upgrading what I have and selling the ones I don’t think will get used. As for the relationship I have with my wife, Mrs. Shadow and I are contentedly sitting in the middle of our 11th year of marriage, and no boat can or will come between us.
I’m always looking when it comes to boats. I’m not as devoted to one boat as you, nor do I want to be. I guess that makes me a paddle slut/boat whore too. The truth is I hope that I’m always searching for more info and better/safer gear to get me to the places I want to go. I hope you join me for some of these adventures. That choice still lies before you my friend.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
I can do about 14 of the greenland
competition rolls with my silhouette that has a keyhole, I don’t fall out. I just have to dig my thighs in. I’ve added a bit more padding than what I used to have and it’s fairly secure. I think it’s a matter of what you’re used to, and comfortable with. I think the ocean cockpit would be fine, it does offer a benefit for gripping with the legs, but a well designed keyhole is just as good in my opinion. Same thing with the surf kayak. It’s a keyhole too, never had any problems with fit.
(insert sings story about getting sucked out of surf kayak).
lest you think I’m being surly
googoogachoob I am the egg man!
I’ve heard plenty of qajaq brownshirts telling folks that anything other than a sof with an ocean cockpit is sub-standard.