Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of Werners adjustable ferrule design? I know someone selling a 220 to 240 Kalliste in new condition. Seems this would be a pre Jackson/move werner. Also, my gut tells me that that ferrule would stay tight basically indefinitely with the increased surface area of the joint…possibly longer lasting. So, was there any negative/bad issues with that design other than a few ounces heavier?
Is there a reason you want the adjustable feature.
Normal paddling vs feeling more laid back and lazy with it extended out. That and look how much more shaft overlap there is in the ferrule with infinite feathering. It just looks like it would stand the test of time better with no loosening/wiggling of the ferrule years down the road. I could be wrong tho…,thats why I’m asking.
The adjustable paddle adds a bit of additional expense besides weight. Unless you are paddling multiple boats, for most people a single length is all they need.
As far as feather angle, the majority of people seem to favor unfeathered paddles these days. If you find a feathered paddle feels better to you that’s fine. However, once you decide on a feather angle, stay with it. You want the orientation of the blades to be in muscle memory so you do not have to think when you need to suddenly brace or attempt a roll. The idea of changing the feather angle depending on conditions is largely discredited.
All that being said, if you have the option of buying a used paddle at a good price, go for it. If for some reason you decide you don’t like it, you can probably resell it for what you paid for it.
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What is this debate about feathered and unfeathered?
I’ve been using an old adjustable-ferrule Kalliste for over 10 years, could be even longer, from the days when Werner’s were built in Sultan, Washington State. The adjustable ferrule eventually gave out just a few months ago. The paddle is still functional, but has started to loosen and separate when paddling - not as scary as it sounds. I contacted the company that purchased Werner and they said they don’t repair the offending ferrule. Glue or duct tape is the only option, making the paddle a one piece. My particular paddle has seen a lot of work over the years. They are good kit, and it served me well. My Kalliste is now gathering dust as a backup.
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The shaft will be round instead of the usual subtle Werner ovalization through the grip area. Adds a little weight with the extra length ferrule insert.
See you on the water,
Marshall Seddon
The River Connection, Inc.
9 W. Market St.
Hyde Park, NY. 12538
845-229-0595 main
845-242-4731 mobile
Main: www.the-river-connection.com
Store: www.the-river-connection.us
Email: marshall@the-river-connection.com
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John sent me a 240 CM Kalliste a while back and it’s become my favorite Euro paddle overall. I doubt you’d have any regrets if you get that paddle for a good price. Full carbon Kallistes are not cheap so depending on the price it may or may not be a deal. new they sell for close to $500, up or down about $25 depending on if it’s bent or straight.
One that is a super close 2nd is my Aqua Bound Eagle ray, but the Eagle Ray is now discontinued.
My opinion is that a good deal is worth the money but once the used paddle gets to the 75% mark of new price, you are likely to be better off spending the 100% and getting exactly what you want instead of 75% and getting fairly close.
As of today (knowing that with new input of information things can change) I have given up on all other euro paddles except for my Aqua Bound Eagle ray and my Warner Kalliste. I am mostly a stick paddle man. I make Greenland and Aleut paddles and so I make exactly what I want and I have done a lot of experimentations with longer, wider and narrower blades and differing shapes with sticks. I love my Wood GL and Alaskan paddles, but I have found the 2 euros above to be VERY good overall. If you get the Kalliste I am pretty sure you’ll like it.
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Steve, you were fortunate to find that price on the clearance model Eagle. The reason I sent the Kalliste paddle was primarily for your opinion regarding how the Eagle and Kalliste compared. I could have sent a Camano, but I know how the Camano a d Kalliste compare, so I don’t really care how the Camano compares to the Kalliste. I offered my 240 Kalliste to my nephew, but he didn’t like it. His preference is the all carbon Manta Ray. Aqua Bound paddles are a great value for the price, but after you paddle a while, finite details became internalized. I’m not satisfied with other paddles and have no desire to upgrade. My perspective is don’t change unless you’re dissatisfied. If your paddle is satisfactory, stay with it. If you can’t tell the difference don’t worry. If you can’t taste the difference between caffienated and decaf coffee, drink the one you want.
I’m glad you stayed with the Kalliste to overcome some of the initial teathing pains. I went from the StingRay to the Camano, then the Kalliste, so I was already accustomed to the touring style blade. You went from a White Water paddle to the Kalliste (99.7 sq in) and Eagle (98 sq in). Your Taiwan paddle was probably 110 sq in which is a big jump, so chances are you were overpowering. You figured out that the Eagle has more dihedral which makes it feel more forgiving. I’m still curious which paddle covers more diffence faster, but you do nearly as well using the Greenland paddle. Then your Greenland paddles are larger than most.
It doesn’t matter which paddle you prefer. What mattered most is your opinion, but I hope you learn to value the Kalliste to the extent that I appreciate it. I wish I could find a good, reasonably priced GPS to send you so you could really test it.
When I visit, my first priority is to put my phone in your boat so you can plot you’re peak speed, speed averages and fluctuation. I’ll have my GPS so you can also get an idea of your real time speed.
John I have thought back to the 1st Taiwan paddle and wondered how many Sq In it had but looking at the WW paddles I see people use on the rivers here I am struck by the fact I have yet to see a set of blades as big as that paddle had. My knowledge of “things kayaking” was near zero, and I have very few other paddles to make a comparison, so I didn’t really know it was big.
I think I am going to take the Kalliste and the Eagle Ray and trace one over the other on paper top see the exact difference in shape and how far from the center the lower edges are. It may not answer any questions for me, but then again it may.
I also was impressed with the lower cost of the Aqua Bound line compared to the Warner line but if you look today that seems to no longer be true feature to feature. It seems the 100% carbon AB are now as expensive as the Warners or maybe a smidge more.
I’d be happy to do that experiment for you john, but for me I am not concerned with my personal records. I am fast enough for what I’ve needed so far. I am of the belief that if we have 1 kayak, 1 kayaker and 5 paddles we can get a good comparison of one paddle to another. But I am 1 kayaker in 5 kayaks and I used about 25 paddles so I don’t know what time over distance of any combination on a different day would really tell me. What I know as of now is that I can easily keep up with my friends on our day trips and camping trips and I am faster than my sister’s Alaskan group so I don’t have to worry about being the man slowing everyone down. That was my concern when I was new to the sport. To me that’s what “fast enough” means.
Doesn’t matter to me about how fast you paddle. I’m interested in learning is how the different paddles perform in a specific boat. It’ll only hurt for a moment, then you can paddle however whicha way you desire. It’s about comparing paddles and boats.
My TOC and Jara will be here in 12 days and you can bet your last dollar, I’ll be trying the Kalliste and the Eagle Ray both with them. The Jara is supposed to be a very fast kayak. And the TOC is probably not all that slow either. I did a few time-over-distance comparisons between the Fathom and the Chatham17 with the belief the Fathom would prove to be a bit faster Nope! The Chatham is longer, but not that much at the water line. It’s also 1" narrower. But he Fathom is 13 pound lighter so I expected it to win. It’s quicker to get up to top speed then the Chatham is but over measured legs on the lake the Chatham is still the fastest one I have . Maybe in 12 days I’ll have something faster. But I have to wait and see.
The TOC is 17 feet 10 inches and only 20-7/8 wide. The Jara is 17 feet 4 inches long (same as the Chatham17) and only 20.5 inches wide.
The jara is just over 50 lbs. The TOC is 44 pounds.
Fun times ahead!
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What are the differences between the two boats in what they are used for, they sound very similar, yet you are getting both of them.
Tell Jacquelin to make a 12’ version…
Hi Jmac
The Greenland Touring Ocean Cockpit is a composite formed kayak in true Greenland form with and “ocean cockpit” which is a much shorter oval then a standard British or contemporary keyhole cockpit. It’s made with bulkheads unlike a true skin-on-frame boat but shares the hard chines and narrow profile of West GL kayaks.
The Jara is more Danish in form, and is made for speed and touring. It come rudder-ready (I am unsure if I’ll install one later, but I know I will not right away. I want to run it through some tests before I make a decision on that addition)
My reason is my pipe-dream, which I relegated to being just that. A dream, something I’d never be able to get, but it’s nice to fantasize. But God is always good to me.
Some years ago we had a small earth quake and it moved my home about 1 inch to the south, but I have a storage room that is a separate block-house that is dug into the dirt, and it stayed where it was. The gap between had water run into it and started a waterfall inside my shop. So this year I decided to get it fixed and I had to empty that part of my shop down to the floor and bare walls to get the leek fixed. I moved out a lot of old gun parts that I started accumulating about 57 years ago. Rather then move them back again when the repairs were done I decided to post them all for sale. I had doubts that many would sell, but some are better then none.
WOW! The sales have been overwhelming. In 2-1/2 weeks I’d sold over $4000 worth of old gun parts.
Jacqueline had 3 of the 4 dream kayaks on her trailer when she left Canada. The above-mentioned pipe dream is to own 4 kayaks. First my Chatham17 which I love. it’s a super tough roto-molded kayak for conditions and shore lines full of rocks. The other 3 are all Rebel kayaks, a TOC, a Jara and a Husky.
I paid for the TOC in September of 2024. It’s being delivered on this trip. The Huskys were all sold before I sold my gun parts but she still had 1 Jara on board. So I called her and said I’d take it too.
Also I have 2 freinds who are coming to meet her here and one is about 99% certain to buy one of the last 3 she has to sell. And the other friend is about a 50-50 chance he’ll by another one) Little home and shop on a hill 1200 miles from an ocean in the least populated state in the USA and 2 kaysks sold for certain, one about a 99% chance and one about a 50% chance. So this will be a good stop for her.
I turned an older hobby and passion into my newer hobby and passion and the Jara cost me nothing out of pocket. Selling parts. Barrels mostly. (Need any old rifles re-barreled?)
Knowing the free shipping is a 1 time deal (this time) and that the cost of the kayaks next year is likely to be about $1500 higher, it seems logical to simply get while the getting is good. So I got the Jara too.
Now I own 3 of my 4 dream kayaks.
Not bad for someone who didn’t think the dear was realistic.
No 12 foot Rebels are made (Jacqueline is the importer, not the manufacturer) But they do make some shorter and smaller kayaks, but nothing as short as 12’. All are touring and ocean kayaks. I think the shortest Rebel made is around 16.5 feet.
But not to despair, there are some very good quality kayaks to be had in the 12 foot range. Just not ocean types. Ocean and multiday touring kayaks are usually at least 14.5’ long and most are between 16.5 to 18.25’ long.
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Sounds good, I hope everything goes well.