A question to ponder; do nothing to educate the public and retailers/ manufacturers that cold water kills and you need to be responsible about it and then complain as government gets involved to regulate due to agencies complaints of rescues and recoveries; or do things pro-actively?
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That’s an excellent point about the connection between education and regulation, Steevy, and it’s one that I make to the “don’t tread on me”, “personal freedom to do what I want” crowd. Through a voluntary system of educating one another, paddlers have managed to largely avoid government regulation for over 100 years, but with the carnage increasing
and thousands of new and experienced paddlers coming on board, we’re seeing state governments increasingly proposing legislation to regulate our sport. This trend includes things like, boat registration, permits, mandatory courses etc., all of which involve fees and penalties for non-compliance. So in fact, a big driver of regulation results from those who ignore fundamental safety practices - and also those who denigrate safety advocates and undermine the traditional safety culture in paddlesports.
Here is info from the USCG report.
The most common vessel types involved in reported accidents were open motorboats, personal watercraft, and cabin motorboats. Where vessel type was known, the vessel types with the highest percentage of deaths were open motorboats (50 percent), kayaks (15 percent), and pontoons (9 percent).
The report is based off of incidents that resulted in at least one of the following criteria: death, disappearance, injury that required medical treatment beyond first aid, damages to the vessel(s) or other property that equaled or exceeded $2,000, or a loss of vessel.
From: U.S. Coast Guard 2020 Boating Safety Statistics Report which is not consistent with above post stateing paddling is most deadly!
The statistics are somewhat meaningless as they are not normalized based on number boats, useage hours, bui, time of day, weather, etc.
Come on Paddling Police, lets get 100 posts on this topic
The leading cause of death in the United States is heart disease, so we shouldn’t worry about boating fatalities of any kind.
Oh, yeah, that’s a brilliant suggestion. If that’s the best you can do, Nunio, then I would suggest that you save your energy and don’t waste your precious time commenting on posts like this.
When you don’t know what you’re talking about, Sparky, it’s probably better to keep your mouth shut and not try to refute established facts. The glaring point that you missed is that the highest number of deaths were from open motorboats, but as I stated, the highest percentage of deaths was paddlecraft:
You can read a more detailed synopsis here: 2019 Recreational Boating Statistics - Excerpts - Google Docs
Now, I can’t speak for anyone else on this forum, but I personally think Trolls like you who bitch and whine about safety posts and use pejorative terms like “Paddling Police” represent the very worst among us. What’s your motivation here? And please, enlighten us as to what contributions you have personally made to paddlesports over the past several decades. I’m guessing that would be Zip.
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I’d like to see the evidence for that statement. Especially, when the first form of regulation
you mention is registration and permits which provide no safety benefit, but do increase government revenue. Additionally, perhaps another driver for regulation is a response to hyperbolic use of words like “carnage”.
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Moulton you know nothing about statistics. Paddlecraft is NOT #1 for accidents, not #1 for deaths.
Based on the USCG definition of accident, it is not surprising paddling shows the highest percentage because the only paddling accidents that get publicly reported by police and are in the news ARE fatalities. Swamping a boat, going for a swim, or sinking a $1000 kayak is NOT an accident per USCG.
Stop the fear mongering, which you seem to have found a receptive audience by the Paddle Police on this site.
Please disclose your personal dispute with Oru and why no mention of other kayak or advertising companies.
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Davbart - A favored tactic among those who dislike safety posts is accusing the OP of sensationalism. Your use of the term “hyperbolic” falls into that category. It’s a wonder how people like you, who blow off safety, turn around and accuse safety advocates of driving regulatory trends. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, it’s not safety-conscious paddlers who are getting into trouble, making headlines, and prompting government regulation - it’s paddlers who ignore fundamental safety best practices. And it’s anti-safety Trolls who give that trend momentum.
To be clear: I don’t favor the type of regulation that I mentioned. I think it’s intrusive, and I was part of a group of paddlers who recently opposed a Bill in Washington State that would have enacted such regulations. That Bill was driven by the increase in paddlesports close calls and fatalities.
You mentioned government revenue. Once the revenue stream is created it’s extraordinarily difficult to reverse. And as I noted earlier, paddlesports is being subjected to regulation because of an increased, and highly visible, number of close calls and fatalities - loosely termed “carnage” by hyperbolic, fear-mongering, snowflake, safety Nazis, paddle police and their fellow travelers.
rnsparky, the web page link that Moulton posted provides statistics from the US Coast Guard’s Boating Safety Division not police records so the context is applicable.
If you only consider absolute numbers then yes, paddle craft accidents represent only 4.6% of all incidents. But of that small number, paddle craft accidents account for 22.4% of the total number of deaths. That’s the point.
Added: Paddlers who are unprepared for immersion (e.g.: no PFD, no insulation) or paddle in risky conditions (e.g.: cold water, high winds, big waves, entrapment, time in water) are more at risk of having an incident that requires rescue/retrieval in the first place. Accidents are rarely accidental.
People that paddle canoes, kayaks, and stand-up paddle boards have a higher risk of dying if they have an accident (see above) than for operators/passengers in a motorboat accident. That’s the point. (Edited to remove the term “likely” and it’s statistical association with likelihood.)
Given the odds, it seems prudent to get paddlers to pay more attention to the potential risks they’re taking while out on the water in a canoe, kayak, or SUP. And the paddle sport industry should be taking a leadership role in educating paddlers of those risks.
Tom
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It would be interesting to see the data for paddlecraft and motor craft drowning fatalities by those wearing and not wearing a pfd. That maybe the most sobering argument to increase pfd use. I don’t think I ever seen the numbers widely publicized. If you have them, please share.
Curious what are the 5 most common paddlecraft accidents after falling off your vessel and drowning. Is getting runned over by a jetski or motorboat and knocking you unconscious and drown or not drown captured as collisions?
No I’m not anti-safety, just don’t want more of a government nanny state!
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Oh, Sparky, you are so damn tiresome. Don’t put words in my mouth or misquote me.
Read the graphic I posted and the table again. The graphic says “Over half of all paddlesports accidents are fatal”. The table shows 260 accidents and 137 deaths.
That’s 53%. Compare that with 11% of Open Motorboat accidents having a fatal outcome.
You’re also completely wrong about the media reporting of accidents and obviously have no idea how the Coast Guard goes about tracking accidents and fatalities. Read up on that before you make your inaccurate statements.
Like most garden-variety Trolls, you’ve trotted out the lame “fear-mongering” and “paddle police” cards. How sad is that?
As for my “personal dispute” with Oru, good luck with that bankrupt argument. I have no personal dispute. The video doesn’t mention others because it’s directed at Oru, and for good reason. Last year we called out Starboard. This time it’s Oru. But stay tuned, Sparky, next week it might be a fear-mongering, paddle police screed that takes aim at people like you who go out of their way to undermine the safety culture in our sport. Zero respect for what you’re trying to do here.
rnsparky, davbart, I dont get it. Hes calling for responsible advertising. He has mentioned nothing about government intervention, and is not suggesting one. If you’re paranoid about the government thats a topic for another forum or your psychologist.
Your argument or opposition to this is a straw man, or something. Oru is right to be shamed for this level of irresponsible advertising. Get on board.
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No, you’re definitely anti-safety, Sparky. You telegraph that a mile away. As for this statement you made:
If you bothered to actually read the USCG Recreational Boating Statistics reports instead of misrepresenting the data and whining about paddle police, you’d find that the information is right there - easy to find. Here’s a hot tip: For access to the full reports from the Coast Guard’s Boating Safety Division from 2004 - 2020, go to: (Accident Statistic).
To call 137 deaths across 216 million paddling outings (https://outdoorindustry.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/2015-Paddlesports-Research.pdf) “carnage” is the very definition of hyperbole. To point out that hyperbole doesn’t help an argument against regulation is not “anti-safety” just realistic.
Again, you made the statement that paddlers getting into trouble prompts regulation without support. I’d like to see the evidence for such a statement. Please provide something concrete that shows the Washington state bill was “driven by the increase in paddlesports close calls and fatalities.” I did note that you left out the part about denigration of safety advocates which would be even harder to prove.
I’m glad that we can agree on opposing regulation. I agree they are intrusive and considering the varied definition of paddlesports they would be arbitrary.
I also agree that reversing an established governmental revenue stream is not only difficult but basically impossible. Again, I think you’re overstating the cause of these regulations and unless you can show me otherwise, I’ll continue to doubt your assertion.
Putting the rest of this aside I never heard of an Oru Kayak until this thread. I have been following it on here for a week and commented a couple times.
Now I get an ad banner every time I open this page for guess what? Oru Kayak. That’s not so bad but I open my email guess what I got an email promoting? I go to a home improvement forum and then my hot tub forum bingo more adds for Oru. Now the final straw I see I have a notification on my Alexa and she asks me if I’m interested in folding kayaks.
As to statistics we need to always understand the methodology if 53% of all paddle boat accidents end in death I should have been dead many times over by now, or I should play the loto as I’m the luckiest person alive. Then on the other hand I have never reported an accident so it could be said I have never had one. The key to the statistic is what constitutes an accident? I believe above someplace I read when damages exceed $2000. I could be wrong I’m too lazy to read all this thread again. If it is $2000 in property damage and my canoe I paid $150 for then I guess I could never get counted. I really don’t know the standards for the calculation of the statistics as I have only seen the posted results so please take this as speculative. If the true death rate of paddle sports is really 53% would any of us be doing this?
It seems to me to be misleading and misleading stats often turn more people off than they convince. But after all 50% of the people are below average intelligence. That is a proven fact.
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I didn’t enter the conversation until @MoultonAvery brought up regulations and that’s what I addressed. I never said anything to his original post about calling out Oru Kayak. So, where’s the strawman?
Thanks for the link.
75% of all boating fatalities were drownings, with 86% not wearing a pfd!
#1 cause of accidents are collision with another recreation vessel.
Yes, Sparky. And as for the cold water connection, consider this:
And when safety advocates like me speak up about paddlers who blow off wearing PFDs, it’s Trolls like you who whine and call us names. You have nothing to contribute to the safety discussion; all you do is try to undermine it in your clumsy, ham-handed way. Were you not so oblivious, you would be ashamed of what you’re doing.
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Sorry Moulton, I guess my sarcasm didn’t come across. My comment was in response to rnsparky’s list of statistics (which I took to be him suggesting that since kayaks are such a small percentage of reported accidents, we shouldn’t worry too much about them).
I fully appreciate your efforts to increase boater safety, you do important work.
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