There is an ad that comes up on this forum for Hoodoo pedal kayaks showing a guy standing on a SOT fishing and not wearing a PFD. Perhaps such irresponsible ads should be banned from Paddling.com so that ads here set a good example as well.
6 Likes
So-o-o-o…I guess I missed the whole unveiling of the TuckTec. This is my very first exposure to it. Most kayaks have a place in this world. Someplace, you know. Some use for somebody, somehow. I think that maybe the place for the TuckTec is at the recycling center.
4 Likes
In fairness, I personally know paddlers who stay in territory where the worst result from paddling stuff like this would be having to figure out how to retrieve it from the bottom of a small pond. For these folks - also warm weather folks - I try to steer them to SOTs or something like a used Old Town Otter with something in there to keep at least one end pointing up.
But we are also getting older and I hear the weight complaint a lot more than I did 20 years ago.
So I get the attraction.
But displaying craft like these being used in more open water to try and push them off on newbies is irresponsible.
2 Likes
I don’t want anyone to take this in the wrong way. I find this as abhorred as anyone else here.
The question I have to ask is this. Is Oru Kayak company doing anything illegal in showing risky behavior in their advertisements? Do all most all companies over glamorize their products and under play risks? We still live in a free country.
I just took a look at something I normally don’t have much desire to look at the websites of major WW kayak manufactures. A lot of them on the very first page very first photo so a photo of a world class kayaker with a proper kayak with all the proper gear undertaking a WW feat that is slightly short of going over the Niagara Falls. It is clear to me in the photo it is nothing I would ever do or even ever want to do even with every precaution. I’m sure even the most skilled person would see these as high difficulty WW feats. On the other hand I’m not that offended that someone has learned the skills needed to attempt these rapids and mastered them to a degree they feel the margin of safety is high enough for them. I assume just outside the photos frame are dozen of safety personal including paramedics or doctors to fish them out if the run isn’t a success. But in the photo it looks like the guy is miles from home all alone in the wilderness just having a good time.
I as most of us are so accustomed to being marketed to with outlandish claims that I just turn on my BS filter and see the product as what it is.
Do people really expect to go out in one of these Oru kayaks with or without immersion gear and safety equipment and do a long open water crossing in ice cold water just because they show someone doing that in an ad? Again I don’t condone it I just give people credit for being smarter than that. On the other hand I will see people this spring when the air warms being on our river that is still ice cold in cheap Wal-Mart rec kayaks with no floatation in the boat and not wearing a PFD dressed in shorts and a tee shirt. I don’t know what encourages them to do such things other than not knowing any better. Maybe they were watching YouTube videos or on the Red Bull site getting crazy ideas.
So as I agree Oru should do their part to show responsible practices where do we expect it to end? Is it going to become another case like alcohol ads where at the end they put a warning to drink responsibly even though the whole ad just made you think a little different. Do we end up banning kayak ads like we did tobacco products?
My thoughts are people are or should be smart enough to figure out something is high priced junk. And if not during their learning curve they will figure it out. Once people figure it out word of mouth should take care of the rest.
2 Likes
Lots of YouTube videos of folks who love their TuckTecs and several have near Darwin Award nomination experiences. Bless their hearts!
1 Like
According to actual accounts at least one club on the west coast found that people were showing up in ORU boats to do exactly that - “with or without immersion gear and safety equipment and do a long open water crossing”. And in 55 degree water, which is not ice cold but is also hypothermia territory.
The club had to add a note for no ORU boats on their paddles.
The guy in the example above had a wet suit but no float bags - note that it took four other kayaks just to get him emptied out and in his boat again. And probably mostly guys, with a good bit more upper body strength than I would have.
We have a local large pond/small lake where the fire department will be out there getting people who capsized in rec boats when the water is still cold. It is not an if. They have to do this several times each season and practice regularly with their boat. The only reason people get saved is that it is also extreme popular for fishing and has some houses around bits of it. If not for that the local fire station would be showing recovery, not rescue, numbers.
These cases are exactly what you said - situations where people do not know any better. If the manufacturers are not going to do a better job, it is left to paddlers and local safety officials like rangers and other service groups.
2 Likes
I’m not a big offshore paddler and when I am out, it am on a fishing SOT. But one thing I have seen in the Oru photos and videos that would bother me is that they do not seem to have the ability to add a spray shirt either. Add no flotation and no skirt to the mix and it would seem to me that if you were to get hit by a big wave or a ship’s wake, you are going to swamp and sink pretty fast. Survivability even in warm deep water would not be too good.
The photo of the baby on the paddlers lap is disturbing, but I have seen worse examples in real life, like a baby in the bow of a WW canoe in a car seat in a Class II rapid.
1 Like
I don’t know if they expect it because they see it in the ad, but I’m sure that plenty of people do think they can do this, with grossly inadequate boats and gear, because I read about them all the time. Go to the Reddit kayak forum and you’ll see it all over. Unfortunately the ads re-enforce what many people think they can do, and even if it’s not illegal, it’s pretty negligent. They obviously know and should treat their own customers better.
1 Like
They never change unless they’re pushed to change, and even then, some are unwilling to change and just blow off critics. I don’t think we should sit on our hands and tolerate manufacturers and retailers who undermine paddling safety via their ads. After all, this is our sport, our safety culture that they’re undermining.
Well, the drinking is illegal in all 50 states, as we noted in the video. After working ten years full-time promoting cold water safety, I’d have to say that there are a ton of new paddlers who have no idea that cold water is dangerous. The National Center for Cold Water Safety works hard to reach them, and our efforts are undermined by the kind of images that Oru produces.
My point would be that they get the idea that icebreaker paddling is cool and they emulate images they see in social media - including ads like the ones Oru produces.
I don’t think anyone who has studied advertising thinks it’s a benign influence. And it definitely is designed to influence behavior. Oru is clearly trying to sell kayaks. What they’re doing at the same time is undermining safety. That’s why I don’t like their ads.
I’d add that we know from scientific studies that without the protection of a wetsuit or drysuit, most people will experience maximum-intensity cold shock at water temps between 50-60F. On average, hypothermia takes about 30 minutes of immersion to develop. The immediate threats to life are cold shock, swimming failure, and incapacitation. https://vimeo.com/529139413
1 Like
Let me first say your video is excellent and a must see for every new paddler.
Living up north in the Great Lake region we have a short ideal summer and folks try and extend it on both ends with all outdoor activates involving water. As an example in the last month our river has warmed from 32f to 46f and we have had a couple nice 70f air temp days in there. I’m personally looking for a water temp of 65f and even then I’m using extreme caution and hugging the edges and not even thinking of going out at high gage heights with faster water. I know I could push the season a little with wet or dry suit and at some point who knows I might make the investment.
The truth is any day now over the next month people will be on the water without proper protection in Wal-Mart rec-kayaks. I haven’t seen a folding kayak yet but IMO the rec-kayaks from Dicks or any of the outdoor centers or Wal-Mart are all about the same thing and shouldn’t be on the river without proper immersion equipment. I will include in that myself in my OT canoe.
Last summer we had a large river float sponsored by the fire department as a fund raiser and they launched around 450 paddle boats in and hour on a nice summer day with water temps about 70f. They invited the coast guard to come to the launch and they offered a free safety check. There were maybe 10 CG people there and they would check your boat if you wanted and place a sticker on it if you passed. All the while 100s of boats were launching and maybe 5% had PFDs worn and 100% had PFDs on the boat stored. 80% of the boats had a cooler with unknown beverages inside. I was kind of surprised none of the CG people were inspecting and supervising the launch practice. Now I know if they were to start taking coolers away and enforcing PFD wearing at least for the first 100’ that would ruin the fund raiser in the future just as when one year the fish commission showed up and gave tickets for not having a bi-annual launch sticker on your boat. But on the other hand safety is safety and it is ether real or not. This is the same fire department that will be risking their lives pulling half frozen people out of the water the next few weeks.
Go to Wal-Mart website and search on kayak and you will see lots of trendy looking photos of people without PFDs or with ill fitting PFDs and no kind of safety disclaimer or links to safety instructions. They are also getting rich selling poor quality paddleboats.
Here is a link.
It is a big task to undertake that’s for sure. Getting the information to the people that are not thinking or looking for information is a tough job.
2 Likes
There are a lot more culprits than Oru though I do not condone their advertising. Walmart; your local hardware store… They are selling essentially pool toys with no thought to safety. You can buy a kayak and a paddle at a hardware store. The same store does not carry PFD’s’
3 Likes
Kind of my point. Do you go after everyone and their brother or do you just “somehow” educate those that don’t want to learn. I’m even torn as to how far I should push the limits when I see a couple young people I don’t know heading out into 40f waters in shorts and a tee shirt not wearing a PFD. I know how bad I would feel if the next day i heard they didn’t make it.
2 Likes
Mix and match. No, you can’t effectively advise everyone who probably needs it. Look for openings.
I have caught a few people landing on islands they are not supposed to be on during bird nesting season where I go in Maine, usually also poorly equipped. I rarely fail to take the opportunity to tell them about the bird nesting restrictions if I am swinging near where they are anyway. If I can caution them about anything else while I am there I at least try, like a forecast of increasing winds.
If people are lost it is a wonderful opportunity for a larger conversation about charts etc.
2 Likes
Some grocery stores in my area carry them as well. But no PFDs of course.
1 Like
When we called out Starboard Paddleboards for their unsafe images, the CEO got personally involved in the discussion, the company was sincere, they apologized for their mistake, and they took down the images and videos within 2 days. No excuses, no justifications, no BS. Then they began working with their media folks to create new ads. I was honestly impressed. That’s the way a company with a real commitment to safety behaves when confronted with criticism. In contrast, Oru’s response has been a combination of lies, evasion, and empty excuses. Just like their ads, Oru’s actions speak for themselves.
5 Likes
That’s a good question, Bud, and I struggle with it all the time. Time and energy are finite and there’s a lot of misinformation, irresponsible advertising, and unsafe products out there - and nobody really policing the situation. So what do we do about it? In our case, we call out companies when we can, and we also work hard to educate paddlers.
I’ve been in exactly the situation you describe. Father and couple of little kids at the put-in, 40F water, and I just felt I had to say something because if I read about them in the news the next day, I wouldn’t have been able to stand it.
So I asked the father politely if I could have a word with him for a second. He said OK. I explained that I wanted to speak father to father, that I had two daughters. I gave him my business card and practically begged him not to launch. To my relief, he thanked me and scrubbed his plans. But I know better than to try and approach some guy and his girlfriend and try to sell the message - that’s NEVER worked out, no matter how gently I try to explain the situation.
We’re one organization trying to make a difference, and when other paddlers speak up and use us as a reference, it makes a huge difference. I find these unsafe ads deeply disturbing, and I don’t think that we have to tolerate them. This is our sport they’re making money from and our sport that they’re undermining. We have an obligation to call them out. And I mean all of us paddlers who know enough about safety to speak up. If we object loudly enough, these companies will begin to pay attention. If we don’t, then they will continue with the status quo. That, in my experience, is what advocacy is all about.
5 Likes
What Oru is charging for their kayaks puts them way above the big box store “pool toy” level and they should really do better in safely marketing their products. (I still only see a folded up real estate sign when I look at them)
3 Likes
That is one big crazy carpet.