Does anyone know what an OT Discovery 17 5 actually weighs? We borrowed one, it was a beast, I’d like to buy something lighter, but need a comparison to figure out a bit better what will be more comfortable. I can’t seem to find specs online, although the 169 is around 100lbs.
I know the best way is trial and error, but we don’t live near civilization, so that won’t be possible. We need to narrow down our list of possibilities so that when we do go to civilization we know pretty much what we are looking for.
Also, anyone know anything about Esquif? I hadn’t heard of them, but an outfitter near here uses them.
simple answer…
A LOT!!! Around 120 lbs. BIG boat, 44" wide. Definitely a cargo hauler. Isn’t this the square stern designed with a motor mount and oar locks?? Not something I would want to paddle down a creek.
17 4
I have a 174, think it is listed at about 65 lbs. Heavy enough.
174 at 65 pounds?
Did they make some of them out of Royalex? The poly ones must be around 90 pounds.
I’ll have to check
something tells me I read 65 lbs somewhere. My back does tell me different though. Stay tuned.
Not square stern
or oar locks.
found an advertised weight
37.6 kg, which is about 83 pounds. That’s less than I thought.
http://www.brighton-canoes.co.uk/productpages/canoes/old-town-penobscot-164-174.htm
stand corrected
– Last Updated: Jul-27-10 11:02 AM EST –
Checked and the 169 tips in at 85 lbs, so the 174 may be more than that by 10 lbs, give or take. Don't feel so wimpish any more when lugging it by meself. I may have been thinking of the kayak weight.
If the one mentioned above is a square stern, that will add a bunch as well.
Supposed to be a great boat though.
Esquif
Esquif has become North America’s leading manufacturer of new whitewater canoe designs for some years now.
Now that all of the American manufacturers, other then Wenonah, Mohawk, and a handful of smaller makers (such as Hemlock canoe, Placid Boatworks, Colden Canoe, Vermont Canoe, Millbrook Boatworks, etc) are owned by one of two big conglomerates, they seem to have no interest in developing any new designs.
The Mad River Outrage and Outrage X, Mad River Caption (formerly Dagger Caption), and Mad River Legend (formerly Dagger Legend) are all older designs. Bell has the Prodigy and Prodigy X, and the Ocoee (formerly Dagger Ocoee) but they have been around for some years.
Wenonah hasn’t really made a whitewater boat since they produced the composite Edge. Mohawk hasn’t produced a new whitewater design since they were sold. Hemlock Canoe produces the composite Shaman. Millbrook has some fine designs which are rather oriented towards slalom racing.
Fortunately, the canoe tradition is alive and well in Canada. In addition to Esquif, there is Clipper Canoe, Nova Craft Canoe and Souris River Canoes. I have heard very little that isn’t good about Esquif, which also produces some very fine flatwater boats.
Unless the powers that be that control the big holding companies that now own Bell, Dagger, Perception, Old Town, and Mad River decide to risk the capital to develop some new designs, or Mohawk or Wenonah decide to bring out a new whitewater boat, the Canadian makers will soon be the only game in town, at least as far as whitewater canoes go.
Is it 174 or 175?
The 174 i am familiar with, but a 175 i have not heard of.
The 174 weighs a good 80+ in any configuration. With cane seats its probably around 83-84#, But with the heavy molded foam filled polyethylene seats its more like 88-90#.
It is a very big plastic canoe and the penalty for Polyethylene vs ABS is more weight at less cost.
Bill
check out a mad river expedition16
nice canoe.
174
Yeah, it’s probably a 174. Maybe thats why I had such a hard time finding specs:) Thanks.
the OT Disco 169 weighs 83 lbs. …
– Last Updated: Jul-29-10 12:38 AM EST –
...... it is a linear polyethylene 3 layer construction , it's considered a flat bottom hull although it does have a very mild arch , it's deep at center , deep at stern/bow , generally a slow canoe , it's rugged and very dependable in rough waters and is good in cl 2 where not much quick turning is required (not a WW canoe) . You can stand up in it with ease because it has "great" initial stabilty (not tippy) , kids can hang over the side - move everywhere they can find in it while you're paddling or holding still (where they shouldn't be) always throwing it out of tilt and trim - and it won't matter (other than you'll get tired of counter leaning to remain comfortable - dogs could bounce from one end to the other , hang over the side , jump out and it's just an annoyance ... it's a rock solid canoe made to be forgiving . It goes up river just fine although slower .
A canoe like this Esquif on the other hand has considerably less initial stability , it will feel tippy when at rest , but should feel like it gets less tippy (solids up) when underway - it's a light V bottom . It will turn easier - it's considerably lighter (24 lbs. lighter than the Disco 169) , it will go faster for the same effort (as compared to the Disco 169) - I don't believe it's as forgiving when being thrown out of trim by kids or dog (as compared to the Disco 169)- this should be a canoe that has a nice blend of river performance and load capabilty - it has 2" of rocker (which I think is ALL or MORE than you will be wanting) ... with the light V hull , the 2" of rocker , the slightly shorter at 16'-2" , the 59 lb. weight , and still a fairly deep canoe (15") but slightly narrow (34") - I think it would be a great "river" touring/camping canoe that's a little tippy (but you can still fish out of it) .
My guess is this Esquif Avalon will cost quite a bit more than the OT Discovery too ... is it worth it ?? ... that's something only you can determine for yourself ,
http://www.esquif.com/2008/canot_en.php?id=13
ps., ... look it comes in blue !!
pss., ... from what I see on Esquif site , all the rest of their canoes they produce have a great deal more rocker (which is not so good for straight tracking but best in WW , the more the rocker = the better/quicker turning = the heavier class of WW)
very useful comparison!
Thank you for a very informative comparison. I occasionally feel a little lost in all the terminology. My big issue with the Disco 174 is simply weight. The rest sounds great. Well, faster sounds nicer than slower.
I am guessing we could pick up a Disco 174 around here very easily and cheaply, but would I be gungho to get that beast on the top of the minivan? Hmmm…
For some reason I am liking the Esquif brand. Maybe it is the name. And it is Canadian 
I am not above such petty inclinations, unfortunately. And I do so like blue. (Aren’t canoes supposed to be red?) But I am a logical person and appreciate real information to get me out of the clouds:) Thank you.
PS- Yes, I know. There are other Canadian canoe companies, with more suitable canoes, and I shouldn’t choose a canoe based on colour:)
well willow , I think the Esquif Avalon
– Last Updated: Jul-29-10 2:19 AM EST –
..... is the type of canoe you are really wanting (and yes , in "BLUE" is good thing) .
If not the Avalon , then something very similar (perhaps a shallow arch hull (would be my preference) as opposed to the shallow V hull) ... all other stats very much the same as Avalon .
Listen , do not get the Disco , you will not be happy with it , it's not for you ... it's too heavy and too slow for you ... no you won't get used to it in time , it's not right for you !!
or is it ??
Plan on at least 900.- 1000. for a nice slightly used Royalex canoe at the least , with some design enhancements that will make you happy , like speed , light weight and performance ... then go buy it and don't look back .
The only question is , are you prepared to pay it's (Avalon) price ?? I don't know what it cost , but my guess is maybe 1400. new ??
You might want to ask a little more about what others feel about comparing the shallow V hull to the shallow arch hull ... I'd be a shallow arch type myself .
Discovery 174
Pilot Wingz compares the Dicovery 169 to the Esquif Avalon. The 169 and 174 are two different hulls and do not paddle alike. The 174 is the better paddling canoe; the 169 is the better downriver canoe. The 174 is faster when paddled. Its drawback is the weight.
If you live way up north, do you have a snowmobile trailer? You could haul a heavy canoe on it and not have to lift to the minivan height. Heck, you could mount a winch on the trailer and crank a Discovery onto the trailer eliminating the lifting altogether.
Bill
snowmobile trailer
We have snowmobiles and a trailer, but I don’t know if you’d call it a snowmobile trailer. We did put the Disco in it, and that was job enough, and it scratched up the canoe, too.
A canoe that works well on a river is mostly what we are after, as the only “lake” in the vicinity hardly deserves the title. We’ll go out on it, but it is so small that even if the canoe frustrates us, it is not a big deal. The river, especially up river, are far more important.
Turns out we have a chance to borrow a canoe for the rest of the summer. I’m guessing it’ll be an Esquif Canyon or Prospecter, as that is what I have seen on our friend’s canoe trailer. I know there are all kinds of reasons that those are the wrong canoe, but hey! it gets us something to play with and some experiences to go on. Maybe we’ll learn something:)
Attitude
Willow,
you have the right attitude. Paddle everything you can, get lots of experience and then you will be able to decide what canoe to buy.
And paddle them all upstream, since thats where the hard work will be for you returning at the end of a fishing trip.