Impex Force 4 and Aquanaut
Agree, I have found that the Force 4 is the closest in feel to an Aquanaut of any boat I’ve paddled. The Force 4 and composite 'naut and feel even more similar than the RM Aquanaut 
Both also feel faster over distances than most of their cohort.
Nigel Foster Legend…
Might be worth checking out. Good carrying capacity, does a bit of everything well. Great surf boat…
But I bet you could fit more than enough stuff into a Cetus MV for at least a week long trip…
^this advice cannot be overstated
– Last Updated: Nov-17-10 4:35 PM EST –
I wish I saw advice like this more often. Consider how many trips you'll be doing, how long the trips will be, and how often you'll use the boat unloaded compared to loaded. Too many people end up with boats bigger than they need, which is fine except for your money you'll probably enjoy a lower-volume, better-fitting boat much more than an "expedition boat".
If you think like a backpacker you'll have no problem getting everything you need plus some in an Avocet.
Thanks
Thanks so much for this onfo.
Impex Cat -4 Aquanaut
Looking at the two kayaks it looks like the Cat has much less rocker than the Aqu?? Is the Cat hard to turn??
Aquanaut-Back band
Have you had any issue with the back band on your Aqu??? I have heard some issue with the back band sitting to low???
Yes…
– Last Updated: Nov-17-10 8:15 PM EST –
Well, let me clarify. I have extensively paddled the smaller brethren of both, the Aquanaut LV and the Cat 3.
The Cat series boats from Impex (3, 4 and 5) are stronger tracking boats when compared to the corresponding Valley Aquanaut family. As you pointed out the Cat boats all have less rocker.
I guess one could say that the Aquanauts are Valley's efforts at an Explorer-like kayak and they did a nice job.
Do you want a boat that takes a little less effort to keep on-track or do you want one that is more of an 'all-rounder'? So many boats, so little time.
Bomber Gear
I replaced the Valley backband in my Aquanaut with a Bomber Gear band years ago. I did the same with my Romany.
Yes II
The Force boats do have less rocker and take more edge to turn than a Aquanaut. That is one of the reasons I prefer the Aquanaut. I would not want a boat that took more edge than an Aquanaut to turn well - the Aquanaut is the stiffest tracking of my boats and there have been times when I would have liked a bit more rocker when surfing the 'naut It is also among the reasons some prefer a Explorer - it has more rocker than an Aquanaut and (like a Cetus) turns without edging.
Thanks again
No…its nimble on edge.
First, everyone paddles a different boat even if they are paddling the same boat. So the experiences of others may differ from mine. This is why you read things that are inconsistent on forums such as this.
Second, I have paddled a F4 a fair bit since I own one. I can easily do at least a 150 degree turn with a bow rudder using a GP and 90 degrees with a sweep and edge. So I find it surprising nimble, but I agree you need to put it on edge as in seam well under water It will also sideslip with a hanging draw well when level.
Third, keep it level and it tracks well and when the wind wants to take you off course, the skeg tunes it well.
Fourth, it was not designed to be a turny playboat, but it turns easily on edge. In my opinion it does what it was designed to do extremely well which is to get you and your gear to a far destination quickly and easily regardless of what you encounter along the way.
Aquanaut and Force4
I own an Aquanaut, and did a 6-day camping trip in a Force 4 a few months ago, so I’m pretty familiar with both.
I agree that they feel very similar, much more so than any of the other boats in this category that I’ve tried (Explorer, Cetus, Tempest, etc.) The fit is really similar too - big carrying capacity without having a cavernous fit.
I’d agree that the Force 4 is most straight tracking, but it’s a pretty minor difference. Either boats are easy to keep on course without thinking about it. Both are very wind-neutral for boats this size. And both will turn quickly and predictably with a good leaned turn. I’d say the Aquanaut turns when flat a little easier than the Force 4.
If you like a slimmer, lowish boat, and want something fast and capable for long-touring in rough waters, I don’t think you can go wrong with either boat.
"nimble on edge"
Nearly all boats turn well if deeply edged. A Force boat takes more edge than an Aquanaut which takes more edge than an Explorer which takes more than Nordkapp LV, etc…
It is all a matter of degrees and the paddler. All the boats under discussion are good boats. It really comes down to the paddler’s preferences and comfort level.
I am a big fan of the Aquanaut and
consider it the best all around kayak I have ever paddled. Fortunately I am able to own multiple boats that excell in different conditions and use my Aquanaut LV RM for the pool, ice, loaner, and nasty conditions as it will take a licking and keep on ticking. It will handle a load (me), track, handle well off wind/wave, and rolls as well as my skin boat. I could think of no better boat if I were to own only one boat, or suggest a boat for someone looking for a good all rounder. If I could get an exact copy of my boat in carbon kevlar, I would sell my other boats and use just it. Bill
P.S.- For the record, my Cetus (HV) was completely unsatisfactory in terms of tracking and off wind/wave performance. It was outstanding in all other regards.
More/Less Turny
Turny, theres a technical term, right.
If you like a more playful/responsive feel then the Cetus LV/MV will respond better. Straighter tracking, then the F4 is the way to go. Time to get into the kayaks on your list and see what makes you smile the most on the water.
On the sidebar of backbands, IR Reggie or Loungeback are easy and comfortable swap outs. Bomber Gear went bust years ago but you might still find one haunting around on eBay! or your local outfitters warehouse.
See you on the water,
Marshall
The River Connection, Inc.
Hyde Park, NY
www.the-river-connection.com
Thanks
Thanks so much for takeing the time to submit your post it was a big help.
Paddled one once …
… for about half an hour. Light wind, waves about 2 - 3 … inches. So I think I know the boat pretty well. I did read somewhere, or maybe someone told me … that this boat has a tendency to weathercock … well, I think it was the Cetus … it was a P&H for sure. The boat clearly weather cocked (my stroke is perfect), so I included that in the extensive review of the boat I posted.
Opps … looks like I posted this in the wrong thread … should have been the “biased reviews” one …
Bomber Gear
Bomber Gear has been back for a few years: http://www.bombergear.com/10/
However, it does seem as if they no longer produce backbands. Many love the IR bands which Marshall noted. Mostly one wants a ww style back band that is lower than the cockpit rim , does not fold over when entering the boat and does not inhibit rotation.
Chatham 18
– Last Updated: Dec-01-10 10:58 PM EST –
it's not low volume, the cockpit is very deep. It has some interesting handling characteristics that you may or may not like. For your size and desire for a 2-5 day boat it can certainly work but so can your Ch17.
When you say "expedition" it sounds like more than a weeks worth of gear.
Have you paddled a glass Chatham 17? The front compartment has more room than the roto version and it seems to have another 1/2" of freeboard compared to the plastic one.
NF Legend
There have been a couple of refs to the Nigel Foster Legend in this thread, though these are admittedly off the original poster’s message. I have one as my “expedition” boat. I purchased it after grossly overloading my Valley Avocet (FG) on a 5 day trip with no fresh water. Since then, I have come to love the Legend. If I had to have just one boat, Legend vs. Avocet, I very well may choose the Legend. It’s an expedition worthy boat that handles like a dream. See the NF paddling videos for to see the abilities of this boat.