P&H Orion - still made?

Is the Orion still being made? Doesn’t seem so according to P&H website. If not, when did they stop making them?

I could be wrong Chip
but I don’t recall seeing it at Canoecopia.

New England Small Craft
in Rowley Mass. should know.


Try Sakonnet Boat House
They’re in Rhode Island. It appears they still have two Orions in stock not to mention an outstanding selection of P&H kayaks. Here’s the link:


Good Paddling,


yes, but only via special order…

– Last Updated: Mar-28-05 4:55 PM EST –

i asked p&h the same question last year. they do not offer it in their everyday line but can and do still make them when they get a special request.

p&h and derek hutchinson have severed ties a few years back. hutchinson went to current designs and the gulfstream is their version. it's a bit larger volume than the orion but has many similar characteristics.

i have an orion for sale btw, check the classifieds.

When I was asking P&H some
questions, as to which boat I was going to get after my Capella (turned out to be the sirius) but I asked about the Orion…they told me that they keep all the designs and any of their boats (past or present) can be ordered.

Exactly what the paddler above me told you :slight_smile:


I was wondering myself
As I had noticed that even though it does not appear on the P&H web site, the Orion does show up on a number of dealers’ sites.

How much diference is there between an Orion and a GulfStream?

The CD Gulfstream and the Orion
are supposed to very similar boats, are they not?

Someone had mentioned to me that the CD Gulfstream was very similar to the P&H Sirius.

So, Am I correct in assuming that all three boats would be similar?


Orion vs. Gulfstream
The kayaks are similar but not the same. From what I’ve read, the Orion has a slightly wider beam, finer bow and stern, glassed bulkheads, different seatpan and P&H bulletproof construction.

I saw that.
I am in Boston and New York is a long ride for a demo. Looks like a good price though. How old is it?

Not really
The Gulfstream and the Sirius are very different boats. They are similar only in that they were both designed by Derek Hutchinson and share his design aesthetic.

The Sirius is longer, narrower, and lower decked than the Gulfstream. The Sirius is faster, lower volume and has lower primary stability.

The CD boat most like the Sirius is the Andromeda.

Ok great.
Thankis for this info :slight_smile:

sirius is correct
When I spoke to Peter Orton, he said they would keep making it.

They don’t advertise this particular kayak because Derek Hutchinson gets some of the $$ di soldi everytime his name is uttered.

They try to hype their other hulls a little more.

Why they still keep making it if they don’t like advertising it is a mystery of anglican brittania marketing genius only someone named nigel could understand.

Its really quite funny here in Newfoundland, there are quite a few NDK boats showing up, especislly the Romany and the Explorer.

Then we have P&H Paddlers, mostly the Capella (prior to the new design) and one Sirius.

However, all of these paddlers are close together and jumping at the opportunity to try eachothers boats lol. I think one way or the other, whether you choose NDK or P&H

You’re well on your way :slight_smile:

I myself was attracted to the Gpro, by ndk…but couldn’t part with my sirius.


No Valley boats?

– Last Updated: Mar-29-05 2:00 PM EST –

There aren't Valley boats in Newfoundland? I would think there would be at least a few Nordkapps.

Loyalty to paddler snd customers
might be one reason to make classics. something a corporation will never know.

Not to my knowledge
there are none, I was thinking of a new boat and it was between P&H or Valley…I can’t seem to find anyone here with any info regarding Valley boats, in particular the Nordkapp…which is a shame :frowning:

So, I stuck with my P&H!


Derek Hutchinson says
" The Sirius is based on my Baidarka hull which has its origins in the North Sea kayak, which I designed in 1967. The hull was superb, in that it was fast, stable, and didn’t squat at speed, but could be danced when lent over. I did base the Andromeda on the Sirius, however, I refined the hull and gave the Andromeda the bow and stern I had always dreamed of, but never utilized, because until then my designs were governed by the length of my garage, which was 17’ long.

The Sirius and the Gulfstream are two entirely different kayaks. The Sirius is 20 1/2" wide and the Gulfstream is 24" wide. The Sirius is swedeform and the Gulfstream is almost symmetrical. The laminar flow of the Sirius tends to be along the hull which is convex. The laminar flow of the Gulfstream tends to be along the concave hull. The Sirius is faster than the Gulfstream, but doesn’t turn as easily while the volume is about the same.

I use the Gulfstream for my own personal use and for all my public demonstrations. However, if I was to go on a long trip, I would use the Andromeda. The handling characteristics of the Andromeda and the Sirius are almost identical.

I maintain close contact with both P&H/Pyranna and Current Designs/Wenonah. I designed the Orion in 1984 and it was a world best seller,i.e. USA and mainland Europe.

You may be interested to know that the Sirocco, which is the plastic version of my Gulfstream,is now one of the best selling sea kayaks on both sides of the Atlantic.

My regards to all my paddling friends, both known and unknown.

Cheers, Derek "

but for some reason the scirocco skeg isn’t as effective as the Gulfstream skeg, and is a smidge tippier.

with all due respect to mr. hutchinson…
the sirius and the gulfstream are not even close to the same volume. the gulfstream is much larger. 294 liters to 348 liters respectively. the gulfstream is even quite a bit more volume than the original orion.

perhaps he meant to say that the andromeda and the gulfstream are similar in volume since the andromeda is listed at 360 liters.

this of course begs the question: how can the andromeda and the sirius be the same boat when one is almost 1/3rd more volume than the other?

anyway bringing this back on-topic, the orion is an awesome boat and yes you can order a new one from the factory. if you’re looking for a good deal on a gently used one search the classifieds for mine.