P&H Sirius HF vs Nigel Foster Legend

For those who have paddled these two boats, I have a question.



How would you compare the initial stability in these two boats? I purchased a Sirius HF and although I love the feel in the water (and the cockpit fit) and the beam width…I want to not have to work so hard to take pictures. A piece of what I love to do out on the water is to take pics…which has become a (sirius) problem with the Sirius.



I am looking for a boat that tracks well…responds well to leans…and although may be a tad tender when still, will not require so much effort to take photos.



How do you compare the initial stability and the paddling of these two boats? I have an opportunity to consider a light (kevlar) Legend and would love your opinions.



Comparatively speaking…for those who have paddled somfe of the following…how might the initial stability of the Legend compare to the Aquanaut, Nordkapp, Chatham 18, Merganser, Bahiya, or Night Heron (all boats I enjoyed paddling)…and all boats I would have no problem taking pics from.



Many thanks…

Bob

Sirius stability

– Last Updated: Feb-10-05 1:28 AM EST –

Last summer at GOMSKS, a few of us were sitting out in the bay in a range of boats (Nordkapp, Legend, Chatham, Explorer, Aquanaut, etc) and discussing kayaks. When it came to the Sirius, no one present felt its stability was certain.

I have an Aquanaut and have demoed a Sirius and a Legend (as well as Nordkapp, Chatham, etc...). The Sirius felt the most tender to me. It also did not seem to 'catch' or 'hang' on its chine the way most of the other boats mentioned seem to.

To me, the Legend felt much more solid than the Sirius as far as both primary and secondary stability. To me, the Legend feels to have at least as much primary stability as the Nordkapp H2O. The Legend is one of the very fastest of Brit style boats. Thusfar, in Sea Kayaker tests, the only Brit style boat faster then a Legend is a Sultan. The drag figures show the Legend to be notably faster than the Sirius, Andromeda, Nordkapp, Aquanaut, etc...

Many thanks Wilsoj2…
You confirmed exactly what I was thinking. I plan to sell the three kayaks I have and look at another one (lack of room, and don’t need them all).



It will be interesting to see how the Legend paddles. It’s paddling characteristics and weight (kevlar) and QC history sound really attractive.



I also plan to build a boat this summer. If there is anyone looking for a Sirius HF, VCP Skerrey RM, or Tempest 170 RM take a look at the classifieds.

Cannot speak for the legend
but I love (and I am sure everyone knows onp.net) that i love th sirius, my only real complaint with the boat is its performance of flat water. Still no problems keeping up with most boats in my group ( capella, cosma, quest seaward). I find the boat to be a little sluggish when it comes to turning the boat on flat water. HOWEVER, when the swells are on, and maybe some chop, the sirius begins to shine. I know its not much help to yuo…but its my two cents :slight_smile:

stability
the sirius is a downright twitchy kayak, I have to admit that it was one of the only kayaks I’ve capsized in on totally flat water. It surprised me. But I also have to say it is one of the fastest easy to carve, and great downwind kayaks. I really like it. But comparing it to the legend isn’t accurate. The legend is pretty big. But it also just has a different hull shape. The legend is more stable. But it is wider and has hard chines.


Kwikle…
You are absolutely right…they are two totally different hulls/boats. I am just trying to get a sense of the initial stability of the Legend…by comparing it to a variety of very different boats I have enjoyed demoing(aquanaut, greenlander pro, nordkapp, explorer, currituk,tempest 170, night heron, merganser, bluefin).



Had planned on holding onto the Sirius, but really enjoy taking pics on the water and it seems nearly impossible to do that with this boat. So…am looking for a light boat, narrower beam, a challenging boat to improve my skills in. I wanted to get a sense of the Legend’s initial stability…before travelling 2 hours to demo one. I also have an opportunity to trade in my boats on a used Legend. Although I absolutely know this is all academic until I get into the Legend…am just gathering impressions.

Your input is always helpful…

Bob


yeah
I think though that a sirius is a pretty sweet kayak. One of my favorites that Derek has helped designed. In this case I think he did alot of things right, the length, volume, and overall hull shape are really quite dead on from my perspective. If I had any complaint it’s that they didn’t offer a super low freeboard version of this kayak with an ocean cockpit. I think that would be a sweet kayak. But that would make it even less appealing to the masses than the way it is now.



The legend is a sweet ride too though, but substantially more volume, but more speed too. Larger hatches, larger everything.

Thanks Kwikle…and…
Am curious…which of the boats I mentioned might you compare to the Legend in terms of initial stability…again…want to be able to take pics…but would surely be able to do that on the boats I mentioned.

Thanks again…

Bob

well that’s the thing
with all of fosters kayaks, the round bottomed hull and hard chines combo makes them twitchy too. A greenlander pro for instance while roughly the same width is actually initially more stable than a legend. The v hull on the Greenlander Pro makes for a smoother transition from primary to secondary stability. But I think the legend would be faster, and more fun to carve turns with.



The real problem is that alot goes into kayak design and the best way to figure out what it is you want is to paddle all of them. Demo days, or symposiums are great ways to do this. I have to say I got lucky with my kayaks. I went through relatively few of them and I found one I really like. It does have it’s down sides though, but for a manufactured kayak they are quite few.

Legend
Bob,

I’ve paddled the Legend quite a bit. Love this boat. It’s competently fast, and with the hard chines, really carves a turn. however, I wouldn’t put it on my short list for initial stability. It has a relatively flat bottom, and rocks easily from chine to chine. Feels somewhat nervous at first, until you realize that this is actually in its favor, when carving turns to each side. I doubt this would translate well to photography, although with acclimation, it might not become much of an issue over time.


Thanks to all…
Was really wanting to get a better sense of the initial stability as compared to other boats I have tried…and for using it for pics…as always…the bottom line is getting into the boat and paddling it…which I hope to do during the next 6 weeks…have loved demoing different boats…comparing the different hull designs and coaming/aft scenarios…can just imagine how much fun it will be when I become a more advanced paddler…whatever…it is all fun…



My guess is the Cirrus that I want to build will provide much of what I am looking for…especially because I plan to build it with a recessed aft section…suspect I will love the building as much or more than the paddling…

Thanks again all…

Bob

What about some…
Hi

I have a Sirius too and love it.

If u need some extra stabilyti what about some outrigers? Outrigers to put on or take of.

regards

Propel

GP Outrigger
Hy Bob, stick your GP in the decklines extending out 90 degrees from the front of the cockpit. It acts as an outrigger. That’s what I do with my SOF when I want to have a snack on the water.



sing

we are in agreement

– Last Updated: Feb-11-05 10:06 PM EST –

I'd say the legend is round bottomed with hard chines. Thats why I feel relatively twitchy in one on flat water. If it had a flat bottom I'd feel more comfy in it on flat water but it does not. The primary stability of an explorer is signifigantly greater than a legend but I think the legend is faster, certainly on flat water it is.

Legend great kayak
Of course I’d say that since I’ve owned two of em!! I find with my Legend that if you are top heavy you’ll call it twitchy. As for me, I’m 6’1" and 185 and find the Legend to be rock solid once I got used to the edge-edge feeling of the chines. I take tons of still shots using my foam paddle float for an outrigger and have leaned on it pretty good in choppy conditions to try and stabilize a shot. My first Legend was Euro and a total piece of crap, my current is built by Seaward and top notch.

Cirrus
Would be a perfect choice for a moderately big boat,don’t know why you picked the Sirius and Foster boats as they are definately on the tippy side.

Round bottom
Nothing says you have to sit dead flat in the water. J-lean a bit and the chine should help stabilize you. It’s been a while since I demoed a Legend but, as a beginner, I didn’t find it scary.

Good point…however…
I really like and feel comfortable in the Sirius, Night Heron, Bluefin…20-21" boats…like being close to the water. When I purchased the Sirius I didn’t think about the total picture(no pun intended)…advancing paddling technique…the feel of a narrow boat…but also enough stability to take pics (without needing to prepare with an outrigger…though good ideas)…which I really like to do.



So…I have learned something radically new (right?)…that one boat cannot do it all for you. Looks like I may trade my Sirius for a Diamante (older Susquehanna) which is both rather seaworthy and provides the instant stability I want for picture taking…or perhaps at my stage the stability I NEED for picture taking. And…will plan to build either a Cirrus, Night Heron or King this summer if all plans go well. If I go with the Diamante and like it, I will likely want a narrower boat.

Perhaps a tad confusing…but makes sense to me…



Thanks again all for your input…all helped me to better understand what kind of boat I need at this time.

Bob

down with that but remember I weighed
235 last time I was in a legend. Different for anybody that heavy.