I heard by a 5 star BCU teacher that they discourage people from depending on the paddle float rescue at all. They are of the opinion that in rough conditions, swell, wave, current, that the float will capsize you more often than not. He presented a logical case for having a cockpit that allows a quick cowboy or modified cowboy with stirup recovery, a wet entry and roll up with a float assist, and mutual aid assisted rescues as the only real life way. This is not my opinion, I am posting it to hear if others find this to be true (rough conditions only). His other thought was that paddle float recovery takes too much time and energy especially if the conditions that flipped you cause more capsizes. What do you all think?
Best bet is assisted rescue
I’m not an expert having only taken a couple of rescue classes but I do paddle in big waves and surf zone. I doubt most of the people who post here could do a cowboy in really rough conditions. Having someone to help rescue with their kayak is most efficient way to get back in quick unless you can re-enter and roll. Knowing how to do a paddle float rescue is better than not knowing.
it’s got it’s place
solo paddling when there’s no one to help. re-enter and roll w/ float for assistance. stabilizer for rafting up, especially solo. a few uses.
to depend on it as a rescue option, it’s very low on my list. so is a cowboy scramble, as most folks will have a difficult, if not impossible time doing it in seas. especially cuz it will fail at 80-99% of the way done. Very discouraging to get to ‘almost there’ and have it friggin’ fail. =:-o)
assisted re-entry or re-entry and roll are my mainstay recoveries if the roll might fail. I do carry a PF 90% of the time.
steve
I concur, and…
…would also point out that a wet exit and re-entry should be the LAST option for recovering from a capsize, not the primary one. In order of preference, here’s what one should do when capsized by conditions:
- Brace back up.
- Flop on your back and scull for support, then brace back up.
- Roll.
- Wet exit.
My own experience
has been pretty much the same as your instructor.
When I first learned the paddle float assist, it worked great and was very reliable - until I started trying it in rough waters. What an eye opener. Time consuming and unreliable; for me, at least.
As I spend a good deal of time solo, I have to have a good solid re-entry. Wyoming waters are very cold in the winter and wind is the norm.
Cowboy re-entries are fun but I them primarily when playing around in the summer. I would never consider this maneuver as a self rescue tactic in technical waters.
My primary method is a re-entry and roll. If the conditions are difficult, I ALWAYS will grab my foam float as it’s easy to install (even in the frigid weather), and my roll is nearly always successful with the float installed. My offside roll is greatly enhanced with the foam float. I can be back in the cockpit and pumping water very quickly.
I make my own floats and started with a rather large bulky one. As I gained skill, my float has been trimmed and is easily stored behind the cheek plate.
Economical, reliable, and simple.
Pleasant waters to ya.
Holmes
There’s rough and then ROUGH…
seas. I am sure folks can get pretty proficient, with constant practice, with a paddle float rescue in rough seas (however, that gets defined). At some point, the energy output and time involved increase and the paddle float rescue becomes less effective and not a viable back up. I don’t really know where that point is.
My thinking is that a paddle float rescue is the lowest safety backup, especially for a lone paddler. A person relying on this should be very cautious about conditions s/he is going in, especially in the winter. More challenging conditions can be taken on if there is a very reliable partner (both know each other’s skills well) and, better yet, a third partner (the rule of three).
I learned the paddle rescue in my first several months paddling and practiced in lakes. Even there I found the paddle float rescue not comforting. I immediately turned my focus to learning to roll. I never really had to test my paddle float rescue at sea. Quite frankly, I restricted myself from going out alone in the ocean until I had a dependable roll. And, I then restricted myself from going out into the ocean in any winds greater than 15 knots, until I was truly confident of my roll by testing it many surfing excursions.
I don’t even bother carrying a paddle float anymore. It’s roll/scull or reentry and roll. I have not yet had to do a re-entry and roll yet while touring. Given that my touring boat is a very low volume and tippy (when static) SOF, it’s pretty much a “roll or die” situation when I am paddling alone.
sing
Just prior to reading this post…
I put a reply in the other post about paddle float self rescue.
It is next to impossible in two to three foot breaking waves that are coming one right after the other.
Cheers,
JackL
A further question
To summarize, it seems that many of you found there is a progression of methods used as one learns the sport, and heads out into more difficult conditions. Early ideas get discarded and new ways used.
It appears that a number of folks do feel the paddle float has some utility, but at least in rougher stuff, the novice may unknowingly over depend on it as if it will be a bomber method, not good it seems.
It does look like you all have gone on quite carefully to make yourselves learn multi-methods, brace and scull, wet reentry, roll, and of course, assisted methods. I, myself, was saved from my dumber side by that instructor and made myself a foam float that fit on my paddle, used it to hone a roll on both sides, and am practicing multi-methods as suggested here. I do feel more seccure now.
Anyone have any idea how to communicate to many many of my fellow club members? Quite a few started the sport during middle age. Have kayaks with initial stability, have only learned a minimal at best paddle float method, even that is doubtful due to MAS (middle age spread), lean on their ultralight paddle hard during it, do not practice assisted recoveries, and go out in rough conditions, cold water. It concerns me, yet I have learned to not meddle or reform. Aside from going my own way, any ideas?
How to help others beyond the float?
– Last Updated: Nov-10-04 8:15 AM EST –
To summarize, it seems that many of you found there is a progression of methods used as one learns the sport, and heads out into more difficult conditions. Early ideas get discarded and new ways used.
It appears that a number of folks do feel the paddle float has some utility, but at least in rougher stuff, the novice may unknowingly over depend on it as if it will be a bomber method, not good it seems.
It does look like you all have gone on quite carefully to make yourselves learn multi-methods, brace and scull, wet reentry, roll, and of course, assisted methods. I, myself, was saved from my dumber side by that instructor and made myself a foam float that fit on my paddle, used it to hone a roll on both sides, and am practicing multi-methods as suggested here. I do feel more secure now.
Anyone have any idea how to communicate to many many of my fellow club members? Quite a few started the sport during middle age. Have kayaks with initial stability, have only learned a minimal at best paddle float method, even that is doubtful due to MAS (middle age spread), lean on their ultralight paddle hard during it, do not practice assisted recoveries, and go out in rough conditions, cold water, underdressed (at least as people define it here on forum). It concerns me, yet I have learned to not meddle or reform. Aside from going my own way, any ideas?
Not My Role…
– Last Updated: Nov-10-04 8:42 AM EST –
I'll say it. I don't mind posting stuff based on my experiences here. Folks can take it as they like, or not.
In the real world, I like paddling alone or with partners who I know share my interest in interesting waters. The few consistents partners I have like the challenge and like skills development. It is, for us, part of the enjoyment of paddling. For others, the joy is it putzing around and skills are minimally needed for what they do. That's cool too but I not interested in paddling with them, nor they with me.
Having said that, folks interested in skill development and are motivated will find ways to do that, be it through classes or club situations. If you want to help, you can join a club and do that through organized activities.
When I practice on lakes I have had people ask me to help them learn something. I spent many hours helping someone else rather than practicing myself. I don't mind this because the person asking is motivated enough to ask and to try to learn. I don't approach others and say, "Can I show you something..." I don't feel the need or the desire to do that.
There's an old adage: "When a person truly wants to learn, the right instructor will come along." This implies a "passive" way but really is not. What it means is that when an individual really wants learn, his mind and heart are opened to taking in something new. Someone will show up and the "student" will know it and seek what that person has to offer.
sing
Fun practice
When I was in Michigan there was a group who’d meet for a weekly paddle and/or practice session. The motivation was that we all aspired to the Great Lakes, and knew we needed skills we didn’t use on the normal small-lake paddles that weekday realities allowed. If you do it as a group, with lots of encouragement, it can be fun. It works even better to plan a cookout or similar warming event afterwards – if someone in the group has a house on the water and is willing to be a host, rescue practice can be something that people look forward to.
It helps if people set goals, and share them with the group. They can be personal-- “I want to learn a back-deck roll” – or you can use something external like a BCU award as a goal. Having a group to work together on the 3-star skills made it a lot more fun than it would have been alone.
Lead a horse to water
but… you know the rest.
What we did in our club this year was to start a safety committee with a plan to develop a set of skills/requirements as a guideline for club paddles. It took the summer for the 4 of us to hammer out something that we thought would pass muster. We wrote it up and submitted it at a business meeting and found much less resistance than expected. (There is always a few) We plan to print it in our next newsletter and then post on our website. Two things developed from this: 1) We set up and conducted a “safety class” for anyone that wanted to come. We had a good turnout too. Covered the basics from putting on a spray skirt, wet exit, bracing, paddle float rescue, some rolling and bow rescues. If we can find a pool we may try and have another one this winter. 2) We are going to join the ACA as a club for the benefits provided.
Our goal was to educate new paddlers about what to carry with them, what to expect when on the water, how to plan for changing conditions and whether or not to even attempt some paddles if they don’t have the skills considered as a minimum. If paddling solo they put themselves at risk and if paddling in a group they could put others at risk as well. This is also a little selfish on our part because someday we just might need assistance and if we are the only one in the group that knows what to do it could be a problem.
Joe
Don’t let go to head but thanks
OK don’t let it go to your head, but I actually learned something here! If I combine what you all said, looks like my error is two fold. One, need to do more of what sing says, hang with those who interest is in the skills direction, not because it is better, just because they are open to that energy. Two, those who are setting up education and teaching thing, that is great also. Put them together. It is like the movie, “If you build it they will come” speaking of the baseball field deal. Those who don’t fine. Better that I do stop like sing says asking people if they want to learn stuff, and take more of the if they ask be generous.
Hey, maybe I can teach this ol horse some new tricks.
what is your concern?
If you are concerned that club members are underprepared for conditions then I’d consider doing rescue practice with them where the conditions allow and make that the reference.
rough conditions
if you are out of your kayak in rough conditions and the pf rescue is your only self rescue you’re screwed.
Don’t forget
– Last Updated: Nov-10-04 10:23 AM EST –
to have fun while you're doing it. Self-rescue has a serious purpose, but grim determination just adds stress. You and your friends will be spending time sitting in your boats upside-down and underwater, by choice -- plainly a silly activity to start with. Besides, if you laugh it keeps you a lot more relaxed.
sing & I were at a beginning whitewater class in April a couple of years ago when there was 8" of fresh snow on the ground with air & water temps in the 30s. It was so completely ridiculous that we had a great time.
paddle brackets
On back deck near back of cowl, there are some wonderful mop brackets to keep paddle perpendicular. For cold water, have a foam float on back deck so can shove paddle into float then with one hand can relase biner from deck eyelet to fasten around paddle shaft. Never paddle big, cold waves and really the sensible thing in winter is what canadians do. XC ski in winter and paddle in summer.
Reentry roll & bilge
This is a little off topic, but the challenge I’ve had with the reentry and roll is the cockpit gets swamped. This goes without saying, I know. The issue is dumping the water. I have only a hand held bilge which works in calm conditions, but in rough conditions I tend to continue paddling my boat until such time I can begin dumping. Not ideal and I know a foot or battery operated set-up would be ideal - just comes down to money. I wonder if I could improve my reentry and roll technique such that less water gets in the cockpit?? I agree entirely with the pf issues mentioned above. Also, I’m a big guy and if my technique isn’t dialed, I can place some serious stress on my paddle shaft - I’ve already made the rookie mistake of breaking a carbon shaft that way. Doh!
Early methods not discarded…
…but rather kept in reserve. All methods have a place.
I always carry my float. Haven’t used it in a year. Hopefully never will again. But it does have several uses - and maybe someone else would have need. It takes up no space.
Volume
Try to minimize the unused cockpit volume. I filled the space in front of the footpegs with sheathing foam, and keep an inflated paddle float behind the seat. It does reduce the amount of water in the cockpit.