Paddling big water

Advice
#50

BTW, big water this isn’t quite yet, but here’s about the farthest I’ve been from shore so far: 45.57965377936321, -75.10759508648798 as part of a 20 km paddle with light winds forecast for the entire day. Went up the feeder river at far as these falls https://www.unsponsored.co.uk/press/chutes-de-plaisance/, which I later found out are actually run… yikes!

My next step (next year) will have me venturing through here 44.728615449980055, -76.24120016858495 (a bit bigger water) as part of a group.

#51

Yikes! In deed. The chutes give me the heebee geebees. So, that reminded me that early in my ww paddling days, I hooked up with group that said that were going to run a class ll-III, which I said that was skilled enough for. I drove up over three hours up to NH to meet with this group, which had a lot of advanced ww paddlers. They decided to change the venue and run a lll-IV (more the later because of the high flow rate). I didn’t feel great about it but thought, “Oh, they know that I am class III paddler at best since this is the level I divulged that I was at…” Anyway, I accept full responsibility for going a head with it. We launched and went almost immediately into a high flow, boulder studded run. I flipped, rolled, came up, hit another boulder and went back over. I was headed straight for a strainer (which I saw on brief upside stint). I tried for a roll and blew it. Before getting to attempt another roll, my capsized boat went right into the strainer. The boat stopped dead, but the force of the water was so powerful that it stripped the paddle out of my hands. I remembered thinking, “Oh crap, I guess this is it…” Then the force of water pulled me right out of the boat and through the tree banches unhindered… (The Grace of…) I got to shore while the some of the crew got my boat out of the strainer. The person who organized the run asked whether I was ready and still wanting to go on with the run. I said, “No, this is beyond my ability. I’ll portage my boat back to car and the they can proceed without me.”

The caution is that a group doesn’t always provide added safety. You are always responsible for going out, whether with a group or solo.

sing

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#52

Thanks for that, Otterway! Wow - I really enjoyed reading this thread. I’ve learned so much from others!
Thanks, All!

#53

I’m not sure if this was mentioned, but group instruction is a great way to meet paddlers who 1) you know are taking safety and learning seriously, since they are paying for it, and 2) you can get to know a little during classes/clinics and gauge if you even want to paddle with them outside of classes. I met quite a few paddlers at my first WW clinic that way that I paddled with for years, and I am still in touch with several of them even though I no longer paddle WW.

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#54

I think there is also some truth to the saying " never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups." Whitewater and surf kayakers are probably a bit different, than seakayakers, lots of T-type personalities and and adrenaline junkies. One person does something risky and in the spirit of brotherly competition someone else has to top it. For several years a bunch of surf kayakers got together in early December to spend a great weekend surfing, sharing stories around the campfire (and drinking) at one of the gnarliest and remote surf brakes in the Winter in California. Very often the waves were huge and very powerful and there was a lot of carnage. There are some great surf videos from these get togethers. Something you wouldn’t try on your own would become doable with everyone around taking their game to the max limits. I was fortunate to do this on just medium insane swell weekends. That being said there were lots of busted boats, heroic swims, and an all hands emergency rescue with one paddler “opened up” by the bow of another kayak in a collision and who was rushed to the hospital for emergency surgery for internal bleeding. After getting hit by foam piles the size of freight trains two or three times, I decided to just film from the beach.

#55

There are - absolutely - problems to be careful of in groups. That is why many of the recommendations above encourage finding the weekends of training etc where where the groups are going to be operating within understood safety parameters. Like ACA and BCU training weekends.

It will cost some money, but it is more than worth it to get the right kind of exposure to bigger water.

A real problem in ad hoc groups can be that they follow the lead of the person with the most bravado. If the conditions do not deteriorate, no harm done. But if they do it is another story. The closest that my husband and I ever came to being a newspaper story was one day when we were both tired and went against our own instincts to follow the suggestions of two other people that we thought were more experienced than us.

After a capsize and swimmer and boat retrieval and all of us having to land on the opposite shore from where we had launched, it was pretty clear that while the other two were more experienced paddlers in time, my husband and I knew a hell of a lot more about the behavior of land and shore breezes on the ocean. We should have followed our instincts and said no to the planned route. There was no choice to admit we were pretty stupid to the two possible drunks who saw us land and we paid a few bucks to get us over the (non walkable) bridge to the cars.

On meetup groups - I have tried a couple in the area of Maine where I spend time in the summer. It can be a very mixed bag and perhaps better tried when the paddler has some judgement under their belt. There was the time that we joined a group that took off in pea soup fog out of a small harbor in Maine without lights, leaving the guide they had hired in the dust. The entire trip should have been rethought but they forged on to make the crossing as planned. Luckily they were headed to a large island where no matter what they were going to hit it. The guide, Jim and I each tried to grab a pod to stay with, the guide said "I hope nobody gets run over. "The hint on that one should have been when the group leader was impressed that Jim and I both had charts and spare paddles…

I tried another a few years ago and it did have a leader who could himself handle emergencies, there were also some questionable practices. They started without a planned route, in a bay that they did not know at all. The leader completely ignored my saying I knew this bay without a chart, the trip planner ended up being a younger woman that bumped into us at the mouth of the harbor and the guys instantly became enamored of. The trip became island bagging, including her advice to go into a stretch of water that I knew would be noticeably bigger than the rest. I guess I was not cute or young enough - my concerns about that stretch were blown off. The group all eventually made it back but lost one paddler who bagged it halfway thru the trip without anyone knowing and had to tow another woman who freaked out and lost all directional control in that bigger stretch of water. The leader, continuing to blow me off, rejected help when I offered. The same woman’s husband had a tow belt, which was what was needed, but instead of using it was following his wife out to sea.

With this group, had anything happened to the leader and multiple capsizes occur, they would have been stretching it. I opted to stay the course partly because it was the first opportunity I had to take this bigger route in a while since I was by then paddling solo. And I was in the Romany. But I would not paddle with this bunch as a group again, too much bravado and too little judgement or planning.

Over the years there have been a lot of smaller moments that argued for editing who you join to paddle. But the bottom line is that not all groups are a great idea, and a newer paddler should look for something that edits the level, such as training requirements for those on the trip.

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#56

Good Questions. ON my first trip to paddle on Lake Superior, we took a look at the lake and decided to do something else instead. This was after driving 4 hours to get there. I would recommend using an outfitter that offers guided tips. You could do a group trip for a few hours or a multi-day camping trip. The guide would help you when or if you got in trouble, provide instructions and help with your decision making. The outfitter would get you into the proper gear. It would cost more but Consider it an investment. If at the end of your trip you diciide that the big lake is not for you, you will have saved a lot of money on gear while living to talk about it. Above all be willing to change your plans. When the waves on the big lake are high, there is usually a bay or stream with much flatter water.

#57

When planning on paddling open water, always have a plan B for more protected water, or be prepared to bag the trip altogether when you get to the launch site. Conditions are not always what they are predicted to be for any particular area.

Make a final weather check before launching. I consider a waterproof VHF radio with weather alert, carried on my body and not the boat, as essential safety gear when paddling big open water.

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#58

I still believe that my rule of thumb applies more often than not. If you have to paddle with others, you probably won’t be going paddling very often. That is unless you are willing to drive to some far off places, or are alright with working around other peoples schedules. I go when I want and where I want to go.

Most of my paddling with groups was boring and was mostly a social event. In some cases, there often is someone who seems to be a self appointed authority who decides where and when it is safe to proceed. That is when I part company. If group paddling, or paddling with a partner was always required, I probably would have given it up years ago. Virtually all of the best paddling experiences I’ve had have been accompanied by me, myself and I. In addition to that, when I did do something dumb, there was no one around to see it, so no embarrassing explanations necessary.

This certainly is not to recommend what works for me is what others ought to do. You just have to find your nitch and work it out.

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#59

Amen!

#60

When I started kayaking, kayaks were not too common. If you saw a kayak on a car, you probably knew them. I started out with a few guided trips and then a very comprehensive weekend course, both classroom and on-water. . It emphasized safety on the water including rules of navigation, wind, waves, current, basic navigation, and cold water safety among other things.

Following this i did a lot of long distance solo paddling and soon joined the Chesapeake Paddlers Association, where I met a lot of very skilled paddlers that i began paddling with. I learned a lot from them and continue to do so. I don’t do as many solo paddles any more and now lead trips with my wife, who I met paddling, and join in other’s trips, including day trips, car camping trips, and kayak camping trips. My wife and I sometimes paddle with just the two of us.

While I still enjoy solo paddling, as you can go where you want at the pace you want, I had my share of adventures and close calls when starting out. Relying on what I learned in the course I took and hopefully some common sense, a degree of caution, and luck, I didn’t die or have to be rescued by the USCG.

Knowing what I do now, I probably wouldn’t have recommended many of the solo paddles I did on open water to begin with.

Starting out, beside a class, I recommend trying to hook up with some other kayakers that hopefully have some experience and the common sense not to get you into situations that are too far above your skill level. Paddling with others is an order of magnitude safer than paddling solo, experienced or not.

If this is not possible, start out in protected water and as your skill level increases, gradually seek to expand on your skills and increase your comfort level.

As much as some people, myself included enjoy paddling solo, I do not recommend starting out this way in big open water. To do so safely requires a certain level of experience, skill, and knowledge that doesn’t come quickly or with a class or YouTube videos.

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#61

Yup. The “T-types” need a bit of self awareness, reflection and hopefully the exercise of due caution (before something bad happens).

At my homebreak, at high tide, the waves would roll right up to and do a dumping break right onto the cobblestone shore. Have to admit early on, in getting my cred as a paddle surfer with “local boardies”, I played the unofficial “game of chicken” which is to ride head high plus waves right up to point of the shore dump and to peel back over the wave crest before getting slammed into the stones. Fortunately, I never got caught in the game of chicken, although I have had plenty of dings and slams into the rock jetty in the normal course of surfing the homebreak.

I earned my acceptance by (and treated as) the locals because they know I can control my waveski as well as most of them. I surf that break right through the winter when the “visitors” and the fair weather surfers have given up by Thanksgiving.

Is it worth it? Well, again, we are social animals and the fact is there is unofficial hierachy at play, whether we recognize it not when folks are thrown together in defined space (as the local break is). Having earned my cred, i can do my own thing. None of the locals hassle me. I have had a few incidents but with visitors, but they backed off when they sense the vibe that I am part of the “tribe”, despite that fact that I am on waveski rather than on a surf board.

In paddling groups, there too exist social dynamics, no matter how subtle, even if the newer folks aren’t fully cued into it.

Surfing/paddling alone gives a (needed) break from the social dynamics.

sing

#62

Interesting ‘coincidence’ of names.

A game I call ‘Chicken of the Sea’ is to paddle parallel to shore, tying to judge where the wave will break, and being just on top of it when it does.
+1 pt if I am right on top of the wave (just before it breaks), -1 pt if it breaks on me, -5 if I get trashed (flipped).

Good practice on judging when waves break.

How Do You Get "Rough Water" Practice?
#63

I’d have to bring an abacus on deck to keep count. :scream:

#64

I would say not so much “coincidence”, as it is the fact that “T-types” exist everywhere and hence the shared games of bravo (or stupidity) that get played. :wink:

Strictly speaking as a T-type myself (with borderline stupidity disorder).

sing

#65

There is a certain sense of freedom being out on big water. There is this same sense of freedom when paddling solo.

Some of us crave the senses coming alive and focused in the moment.

Being on the water always carries risk. The level of risk varies of course, and we as individuals may tolerate different levels of risk. Regardless of all this becoming skilled and knowledgeable helps reduce the risk. Wisdom however does not necessarily follow skills and knowledge. That often requires experience.

I often think back to the story that 3meterswell posted about the guy who paddled solo offshore to photograph sea birds, and did much of the paddling at night. It wasn’t perhaps an advisable or wise thing to do. He had local experience, and I suspect he knew the risks, but he went anyway. At what point does the difference fall between foolish and epic. I suspect he went because for him the risk was an acceptable price of admission to the epic. However, that epic ended in a capsize with a fishing boat and the USCG becoming involved in the rescue.

I don’t know about him, but I would be proud of the accomplishment. I would be mortified about the outcome. I do know I would not have made the same decision to do what he did. As an individual he thought he was capable. Perhaps if the timing of the return had been better it would have ended more successfully. I would think lessons were learned from the experience, which should improve his decision making in the future. A bit of knowledge gained. Perhaps a bit wiser too. He probably knows he could have died.

I sort of like the sound of “Chicken of the Sea”. Maybe the next time I am playing in the surf, but I don’t claim to be wise. :crazy_face:

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#66

Your enthusiasm is fantastic and you’re obviously smart because you worried.

Here is what I would do;

Learn how to navigate without digital tech. I am not saying don’t take tech, I am saying be able to function with out it. Orienteering is a lot fun and will add greatly to all outdoor experiences.

Get with a group who does these types of trips going alone into remote areas regardless of your exp level is Suicide by nature. Eventually anyone will and can disappear.

Have fun!

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#67

Other Warnings:

Have you ever been seasick? It makes me wish for a quick death. The way to avoid it is to snack on ginger (I use ginger candy) the day before and the day of big water. It works. They tested it on “Myth Busters” and it works.

#68

That reminds me of one time we feasted on KFC and then went to sea fishing 100 miles out for 5 days. There is a hell.

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#69

:face_vomiting: Lesson learned. Should have gone with Chick-fil-A or Popeyes.