Ok. Agree.
sing
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Me too… I learned a lot from willing and truly skilled mentors faster than I would have learned from paddling alone . That preparation allowed me to safely execute many solo trips on big inland lakes and the ocean.
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Hi, Otterway!
Most of the points I would make have already been made, but I will add a few more general comments. First, “experience” is a highly personal thing, and no one person’s experience(s) can possibly transcend, or exceed those of others. It comes down to the lessons you take away from your own experiences. I have made my share of mistakes on the water and I like to talk to others about them, but I am often taken aback by those who respond “Wow - that was a pretty stupid thing to do!” No one sets out to do stupid things, but they do happen; talking about them is how we learn! Try to listen to the stories of others objectively, analytically and in a non-critical fashion.
Practice “situational awareness” - things change out there. Stop and think about what you’re doing and where you’re going. Think about what could change before you go, and be prepared for that change. Spend some time learning about “risk analysis”, too. Very helpful.
Near shore is no guarantee of greater safety. Study the effects of waves rebounding from steep shorelines and the choppy “clapotis” conditions they can create just off shore. Study the “witch’s grin” phenomenon which occurs in the lee of islands - a place where you might expect to be safer in windy, wavy conditions. If you know what to expect, you will be better able to cope with it, I believe (ie: no suprises!). I highly recommend the Sea Kayaker’s “Deep Trouble” books for some highly instructional reading.
ALWAYS dress for immersion. I have paddled Superior on 75F (24C) days, cooking in my drysuit, because the water is only 40F (4C). And remember, the water is usually a lot colder the further out you go. I can always cool off later, when I reach my campsite.
NEVER drop your guard and get complacent, especially on big water. The one and only time I dumped was when making a routine beach landing in fairly tame conditions! I was returning from a trip and the beach slope had changed while I was away - got much steeper. I botched my landing and dumped in water much deeper than I expected. Totally caught me off-guard!
I have been kayaking, often solo and on big water like Superior and Georgian Bay for about 10 years. I am still tentative and apprehensive when I go out - characteristics that, I think, have served me well. But take baby steps as you gain experience - don’t take on the big trips all at once. Some trips I would never do solo. I would not take on the Apostle Islands today, but someday it’s a trip I would like to do. Be honest with yourself about your skill set. And, when it comes to groups, be mindful that the bravado of others doesn’t talk you into taking on things that are beyond your own comfort zone. Instructional courses are always great.
The point has been made: you may benefit from a bigger boat when in bigger waters.
Just a few of my own thoughts. Hope you find them useful!
Is the OP still participating in the thread, or has he moved on?
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I’m in the same boat. I’ve not had good luck with such groups and prefer to organize my own group or paddle solo. Of course, there are significant exceptions for well organized groups. I paddled for some years with the Nanaimo Paddlers when I lived there. They were generally experienced, but also had in place appropriate safety measures as well as regular opportunities to learn/practice new skills.
dropped off a long time ago
This is certainly true, but bad and dangerous habits can also be (and are) perpetuated among some paddling groups. Years ago, it quickly became apparent to me that my local paddling MeetUp group is guilty of this. While there are a few vocal proponents of safe paddling there, it is mostly a large and largely disorganized group of reckless paddlers who go out on big water (relative term) without the proper skills, safety equipment, or the awareness that is required. It is so problematic that I check their schedule before I plan my own outings to make sure I have no chance of encountering them.
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Taking it all in, since I did reply (#17) and don’t have all that much to offer. I will say, though, that there are a lot of good and helpful suggestion and warnings. Believe me, I take them all seriously and appreciate the expertise that exists here. I can almost summarize this by @Redstorm 's comment:
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Glad you are still following and benefitting. Truthfully, we are all generic “original posters”. These back and forth discussions benefit not only those engaged in real time, but also those who come later and do a search around a particular subject.
I occaisonally will do searches of topics and past discussions, some of which I participated in. I find that some of my thoughts, understanding and practices have changed. This is fine. As the saying goes, “The only constant is change.”
sing
BTW, big water this isn’t quite yet, but here’s about the farthest I’ve been from shore so far: 45.57965377936321, -75.10759508648798 as part of a 20 km paddle with light winds forecast for the entire day. Went up the feeder river at far as these falls https://www.unsponsored.co.uk/press/chutes-de-plaisance/, which I later found out are actually run… yikes!
My next step (next year) will have me venturing through here 44.728615449980055, -76.24120016858495 (a bit bigger water) as part of a group.
Yikes! In deed. The chutes give me the heebee geebees. So, that reminded me that early in my ww paddling days, I hooked up with group that said that were going to run a class ll-III, which I said that was skilled enough for. I drove up over three hours up to NH to meet with this group, which had a lot of advanced ww paddlers. They decided to change the venue and run a lll-IV (more the later because of the high flow rate). I didn’t feel great about it but thought, “Oh, they know that I am class III paddler at best since this is the level I divulged that I was at…” Anyway, I accept full responsibility for going a head with it. We launched and went almost immediately into a high flow, boulder studded run. I flipped, rolled, came up, hit another boulder and went back over. I was headed straight for a strainer (which I saw on brief upside stint). I tried for a roll and blew it. Before getting to attempt another roll, my capsized boat went right into the strainer. The boat stopped dead, but the force of the water was so powerful that it stripped the paddle out of my hands. I remembered thinking, “Oh crap, I guess this is it…” Then the force of water pulled me right out of the boat and through the tree banches unhindered… (The Grace of…) I got to shore while the some of the crew got my boat out of the strainer. The person who organized the run asked whether I was ready and still wanting to go on with the run. I said, “No, this is beyond my ability. I’ll portage my boat back to car and the they can proceed without me.”
The caution is that a group doesn’t always provide added safety. You are always responsible for going out, whether with a group or solo.
sing
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Thanks for that, Otterway! Wow - I really enjoyed reading this thread. I’ve learned so much from others!
Thanks, All!
I’m not sure if this was mentioned, but group instruction is a great way to meet paddlers who 1) you know are taking safety and learning seriously, since they are paying for it, and 2) you can get to know a little during classes/clinics and gauge if you even want to paddle with them outside of classes. I met quite a few paddlers at my first WW clinic that way that I paddled with for years, and I am still in touch with several of them even though I no longer paddle WW.
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I think there is also some truth to the saying " never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups." Whitewater and surf kayakers are probably a bit different, than seakayakers, lots of T-type personalities and and adrenaline junkies. One person does something risky and in the spirit of brotherly competition someone else has to top it. For several years a bunch of surf kayakers got together in early December to spend a great weekend surfing, sharing stories around the campfire (and drinking) at one of the gnarliest and remote surf brakes in the Winter in California. Very often the waves were huge and very powerful and there was a lot of carnage. There are some great surf videos from these get togethers. Something you wouldn’t try on your own would become doable with everyone around taking their game to the max limits. I was fortunate to do this on just medium insane swell weekends. That being said there were lots of busted boats, heroic swims, and an all hands emergency rescue with one paddler “opened up” by the bow of another kayak in a collision and who was rushed to the hospital for emergency surgery for internal bleeding. After getting hit by foam piles the size of freight trains two or three times, I decided to just film from the beach.
There are - absolutely - problems to be careful of in groups. That is why many of the recommendations above encourage finding the weekends of training etc where where the groups are going to be operating within understood safety parameters. Like ACA and BCU training weekends.
It will cost some money, but it is more than worth it to get the right kind of exposure to bigger water.
A real problem in ad hoc groups can be that they follow the lead of the person with the most bravado. If the conditions do not deteriorate, no harm done. But if they do it is another story. The closest that my husband and I ever came to being a newspaper story was one day when we were both tired and went against our own instincts to follow the suggestions of two other people that we thought were more experienced than us.
After a capsize and swimmer and boat retrieval and all of us having to land on the opposite shore from where we had launched, it was pretty clear that while the other two were more experienced paddlers in time, my husband and I knew a hell of a lot more about the behavior of land and shore breezes on the ocean. We should have followed our instincts and said no to the planned route. There was no choice to admit we were pretty stupid to the two possible drunks who saw us land and we paid a few bucks to get us over the (non walkable) bridge to the cars.
On meetup groups - I have tried a couple in the area of Maine where I spend time in the summer. It can be a very mixed bag and perhaps better tried when the paddler has some judgement under their belt. There was the time that we joined a group that took off in pea soup fog out of a small harbor in Maine without lights, leaving the guide they had hired in the dust. The entire trip should have been rethought but they forged on to make the crossing as planned. Luckily they were headed to a large island where no matter what they were going to hit it. The guide, Jim and I each tried to grab a pod to stay with, the guide said "I hope nobody gets run over. "The hint on that one should have been when the group leader was impressed that Jim and I both had charts and spare paddles…
I tried another a few years ago and it did have a leader who could himself handle emergencies, there were also some questionable practices. They started without a planned route, in a bay that they did not know at all. The leader completely ignored my saying I knew this bay without a chart, the trip planner ended up being a younger woman that bumped into us at the mouth of the harbor and the guys instantly became enamored of. The trip became island bagging, including her advice to go into a stretch of water that I knew would be noticeably bigger than the rest. I guess I was not cute or young enough - my concerns about that stretch were blown off. The group all eventually made it back but lost one paddler who bagged it halfway thru the trip without anyone knowing and had to tow another woman who freaked out and lost all directional control in that bigger stretch of water. The leader, continuing to blow me off, rejected help when I offered. The same woman’s husband had a tow belt, which was what was needed, but instead of using it was following his wife out to sea.
With this group, had anything happened to the leader and multiple capsizes occur, they would have been stretching it. I opted to stay the course partly because it was the first opportunity I had to take this bigger route in a while since I was by then paddling solo. And I was in the Romany. But I would not paddle with this bunch as a group again, too much bravado and too little judgement or planning.
Over the years there have been a lot of smaller moments that argued for editing who you join to paddle. But the bottom line is that not all groups are a great idea, and a newer paddler should look for something that edits the level, such as training requirements for those on the trip.
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Good Questions. ON my first trip to paddle on Lake Superior, we took a look at the lake and decided to do something else instead. This was after driving 4 hours to get there. I would recommend using an outfitter that offers guided tips. You could do a group trip for a few hours or a multi-day camping trip. The guide would help you when or if you got in trouble, provide instructions and help with your decision making. The outfitter would get you into the proper gear. It would cost more but Consider it an investment. If at the end of your trip you diciide that the big lake is not for you, you will have saved a lot of money on gear while living to talk about it. Above all be willing to change your plans. When the waves on the big lake are high, there is usually a bay or stream with much flatter water.
When planning on paddling open water, always have a plan B for more protected water, or be prepared to bag the trip altogether when you get to the launch site. Conditions are not always what they are predicted to be for any particular area.
Make a final weather check before launching. I consider a waterproof VHF radio with weather alert, carried on my body and not the boat, as essential safety gear when paddling big open water.
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I still believe that my rule of thumb applies more often than not. If you have to paddle with others, you probably won’t be going paddling very often. That is unless you are willing to drive to some far off places, or are alright with working around other peoples schedules. I go when I want and where I want to go.
Most of my paddling with groups was boring and was mostly a social event. In some cases, there often is someone who seems to be a self appointed authority who decides where and when it is safe to proceed. That is when I part company. If group paddling, or paddling with a partner was always required, I probably would have given it up years ago. Virtually all of the best paddling experiences I’ve had have been accompanied by me, myself and I. In addition to that, when I did do something dumb, there was no one around to see it, so no embarrassing explanations necessary.
This certainly is not to recommend what works for me is what others ought to do. You just have to find your nitch and work it out.
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Amen!
When I started kayaking, kayaks were not too common. If you saw a kayak on a car, you probably knew them. I started out with a few guided trips and then a very comprehensive weekend course, both classroom and on-water. . It emphasized safety on the water including rules of navigation, wind, waves, current, basic navigation, and cold water safety among other things.
Following this i did a lot of long distance solo paddling and soon joined the Chesapeake Paddlers Association, where I met a lot of very skilled paddlers that i began paddling with. I learned a lot from them and continue to do so. I don’t do as many solo paddles any more and now lead trips with my wife, who I met paddling, and join in other’s trips, including day trips, car camping trips, and kayak camping trips. My wife and I sometimes paddle with just the two of us.
While I still enjoy solo paddling, as you can go where you want at the pace you want, I had my share of adventures and close calls when starting out. Relying on what I learned in the course I took and hopefully some common sense, a degree of caution, and luck, I didn’t die or have to be rescued by the USCG.
Knowing what I do now, I probably wouldn’t have recommended many of the solo paddles I did on open water to begin with.
Starting out, beside a class, I recommend trying to hook up with some other kayakers that hopefully have some experience and the common sense not to get you into situations that are too far above your skill level. Paddling with others is an order of magnitude safer than paddling solo, experienced or not.
If this is not possible, start out in protected water and as your skill level increases, gradually seek to expand on your skills and increase your comfort level.
As much as some people, myself included enjoy paddling solo, I do not recommend starting out this way in big open water. To do so safely requires a certain level of experience, skill, and knowledge that doesn’t come quickly or with a class or YouTube videos.
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