where there is a will there is a way
Streams and rivers as you described are perfect for upstream travel, like the one in my backyard. My poling boats are all Mad River models, malecite, traveller and independence. I’ll kneel when salmoning up one large drop as I’m always alone and when you do lose it, it isn’t as traumatic as when standing.
Paddling Upriver
Typically I go alone because now one else seems to have a similar work schedule. When I do go out I’ll also take into account the wind along with the current. I paddle a lot of sections of the upper Susquehanna River in central NYS and there are some places where the wind will be stronger than any current I may find. When that happens I’ll go into the wind first and then let it push me back home if you will. Upstream or downstream; it really doesn’t matter as long as you get the chance to be out paddling.
That’s all for now. Take care and until next time…be well.
snapper
Another vote for poling
– Last Updated: Dec-16-15 5:43 PM EST –
I have a 10 ft pole from a hardware store, it's a closet hangar pole, I use while kneeling in canoe. Definitely not the traditional method eckilson is referring to but works well for me.
In cases where the water occasionally gets deeper than the pole reaches I use it like a Greenland kayak paddle, surprisingly effective, but I would not want to fight a swift current with it.
Being only 10 ft it's a little easier to set out of the way when picking up a traditional paddle.
That’s something I want to try
– Last Updated: Dec-16-15 6:33 PM EST –
I can't stand in my solo canoes - well, not steady enough for poling anyway - so the idea of a shorter pole used when kneeling really appeals to me. I tried it once. I made a take-apart pole in the manner that was most convenient to me on short notice, and the pole ended up breaking at the joint. However, what I DID learn is that in certain situations when in strong current, my natural reactions regarding boat control based on using the water for purchase (with a paddle) led to me doing exactly the wrong things when using the river bottom (with a pole). It's that old problem of relative motion. I could see that there would be quite a learning curve just getting to the point of compartmentalizing the natural reactions required for the two different methods.
Colorado River
I do the Colorado River (Hoover Dam to Yuma) a couple times a year at least.
Going down river, it does not matter. Robert uses a 16’ aluminum canoe that he overload sna dpaddles solo. I’ve gone downriver in an Old Town Dirago-12, a Perception Carolina 14.5 and an old Town Pack-12 canoe with equal results.
Going upriver, fighting that 3-5 knot current, does matter.
No canoe that I have seen can easily go upriver. I have to fight to get my Dirago upriver but my Carolina goes upriver easily.
The rule is simple, long & narrow. After that, the rest is minimal.
I can’t
Wish I could paddle up my local river. I tried twice. Spent 3 hours battling and made it less than a mile. I have recorded a best speed of 5.8 mph on my gps bicycling app I use out on the lake. The 2nd time I checked while I floated back down with the current, 6.6 mph. No wonder I couldn’t get up the river.
As kayamedic said
– Last Updated: Dec-18-15 8:25 AM EST –
It's more about technique and skill than it is about the boat. Learn to read the water and utilize the micro eddies along the shoreline and behind rocks. Stay on the inside of the turns, very close to the shoreline, then ferry across so as to stay on the inside of the next turn. Learn to do solid cross forward strokes, so that use of correction strokes may be minimized and to allow you to stay closer to the onside shoreline.
A shorter boat, with moderate rocker will be more maneuverable with minimal speed reduction, but will require more skill to control.
Many books and articles have been written on these subjects, however there is no substitute for hands on instruction from someone who is qualified.
Don’t agree about boat don’t matter
I DO AGREE with rikjohnson statement titled Colorado River just above in regards to Long & narrow being much more efficient than short, rockered and especially wide. I have done attainment upriver paddling in Mohawk WW canoes and though I really like them for downriver rapid running, they are very frustrating and fatiguing when going upriver. Long and Narrow is SO MUCH more pleasant, efficient and will get you up river much faster.
I would agree
that heavily rockered play boats are difficult and inefficient, going upstream, any distance. I was referring to the general range of touring and perhaps some rec. hulls which seemed to be the gist of the discussion.
I agree as well, with qualifications
– Last Updated: Dec-18-15 3:43 PM EST –
The fact is, on most quiet rivers, taking advantage of eddies isn't all that practical. On quiet rivers, the current isn't that bad to begin with, and nearly all of the eddies will be due to logs or fallen trees, and getting into one of those eddies only means you now have to zig-zag out again after enjoying about 10 feet of shelter from the current. The next worthwhile eddy might be on the opposite shore, and it might be 100 feet ahead. Zig-zagging to hit the eddies on these rivers is fun, and great maneuvering practice, but it takes you so far off from the shortest distance between two points that at best there's nothing gained, and usually it's a lot slower. One semi-large river with a fairly brisk current that I paddle a lot has virtually no "useful" eddies at all. Inside curves tend to be too shallow to make decent progress, and true eddies are mostly far enough out of the clear path that they can be bypassed far more quickly than ducking into them. Eddy-hopping is best reserved for those swift-water sections where making progress upstream is truly a challenge, and in those cases, I'll agree that a maneuverable boat has the advantage.
When it comes to simply making good progress upstream, the effect of current is to magnify the importance of whatever speed difference there is between boats (by the same token, when going downstream, the effect of current is to minimize boat-speed differences). Let's say the current is 3 mph and you wish to go upstream. If you have one boat that easily cruises at 4 mph and another that easily cruises at 5 mph, the 5-mph boat will take you twice as far upstream in a given amount of time, and that's a big difference. Compare that to the speed advantage of the faster boat on still water or going downstream. On still water, the faster boat takes you 1.25 times as far as the slower boat, and going downstream with a 3-mph current, it only takes you 1.1 times as far (hardly enough to matter). The faster the current, the greater this effect, and thus the greater the advantage of a faster boat for upstream travel.
it’s great practice
– Last Updated: Dec-18-15 3:48 PM EST –
piggybacking on what you wrote, it's also great practice to make one's way upstream without relying on eddies to the extent possible. It teaches you a lot about your boat's handling characteristics. What would be a minor variation in course on a still body of water is much more pronounced when paddling against the current.
Marc ran a clinic
going upstream on a log jammed fun filled with overhangs stream… sometimes you don’t get what you want.
The New Jersey Pine Barrens were a great teacher. Get two inches out of line and you were in …either grass or on a log or under a log. There was current of about 1.5 mph on the Batsto.
We did a couple of other trips involving some upstream forays… The good thing about upstream first is that you have more time to think about obstacles and current than going …downstream… and you can scout to see if you indeed should come downstream.
Basic Physics
– Last Updated: Dec-19-15 12:09 PM EST –
Basic physics indicates that (all things being equal) water will generally be moving slower, along the shoreline. Surface friction between the water and the shoreline, slows the flow. Any shoreline features, regardless of how small will create turbulence which also disturbs the downstream flow. These effects gain significance as the speed of the flow increases, but except for very slow moving streams (in which cases the premise of this thread is irrelevant) the difference is significant.
Zigging and zagging to maneuver around obstructions is generally the wrong approach, especially when heading upstream. Side slipping and ferrying is far more efficient and effective. In the case of side slipping, the chance of the current spinning the bow downstream is dramatically reduced, if one controls the boat's angle, relative to the flow. Using ferries to move back and forth, utilizes the current to do much of the work.
On streams that are particularly twisty, side slipping or ferrying to stay in the slack water, below the inside of turns, actually shortens the distance to be traveled. Draw a picture of a serpentine stream, then plot an imaginary course, heading upstream, while staying (to the extent possible) below the inside curves. You'll find the course to be shorter than had you simply plotted a course along the center of the stream. Shorter course plus less current, equals a more efficient journey.
As for shallow water, along the shore line, (I know that some of you will point out exceptions) most streams, that are otherwise deep enough to paddle, have adequate water for the paddle as close as four or five feet to the shoreline. If one keeps the hull one or two feet from the shoreline (less when possible) there will generally be adequate water for the paddle, on the deep water side of the hull. This may necessitate using cross forward strokes or switching paddle sides.
Some of what I have stated is based on single blading a canoe. When double blading a canoe or kayak, one obviously must have room between the hull and shoreline for the other blade.
Some years ago, I paddled in the NJ Pine Barrens with a friend. We were both paddling similar boats (13-14' long, 25-28" width at the gunwales and 1 1/2"+-rocker). He was a much more powerful paddler than I was. He had a reputation for muscling his way through dicey situations, rather than looking for the "cleaner" path. As we began our way upstream, he worked out in the open, while I hugged the shoreline, as I have described. After a few minutes, I stopped and waited for him to catch up then proceeded on again. After about a half hour, he caught up to me as I sat in a shoreline eddy. After he caught his breath, he asked me what the h--l I was doing, that he couldn't keep up. I explained and suggested that he follow me for a bit, then try the techniques on his own. He did so for half an hour or so but then returned to muscling his way up the center of the river.
These techniques require concentration (at least for a while) and an understanding of the water. In my opinion, the effort taken to learn and practice these techniques has and will reap rewards for the rest of my paddling lifetime.
2400 miles upstream
I paddled 2400 miles upstream of the Missouri river from St. Louis to Montana…use a RUDDER. And a light paddle. I used a single blade which is better than a double for upstream since at times by hull was 4 inches from shore and you cannot dip a kayak paddle on the side closest to shore due to NO space etc… Plenty of upstream eddies close to shore. You go about 2mph…so plan on not much more than 17 miles in a 12 hour paddle day and as much as a 24 miles in a drop-pool river. Slow and steady is what you need to do. And a rudder
Rudders not always helpful
There are a variety of places to paddle. Of course on a deep powerful river with long radius turns a rudder is helpful
On winding Adirondack and New Jersey streams a rudder is definitely a detriment.And a sea canoe cannot even fit the tight radius turns.
When you think of what is the right answer to anything involving your paddling, you have to consider where you are paddling.
I love my Monarch with rudder going upstream against tidal flows on the Kennebec River. I would not dream of taking it on the Batsto.
Best craft depends on type of river
A lot of the responses are from people with multiple boats and who boat on many different types of rivers.
Yes, go upstream first, no matter what kind of river it is.
On relatively wide rivers with some depth, a narrow and fast boat will be the most efficient. On these rivers, you mainly want to power straight ahead without maneuvering. A rudder is very helpful on these kinds of rivers to maintain lines, especially ferry lines. My outrigger canoe with under-stern rudder, paddled with a bent shaft single blade, is my best craft for these kinds of rivers – better than my rudderless sea kayaks with double blades.
If you are on a narrower, twistier or much more surface-obstructed river, in which maneuvering is necessary (slips, ferries, eddy hops), you would probably prefer a shorter and slightly more rockered boat.
If you are buying just one boat, I wouldn’t obsess on the ability to paddle upstream. I’d just buy the boat that seems the affordably best and most comfortable for the type of waters I predominantly paddle. Whatever it is, you’ll be able to paddle upstream in it – perhaps slower, perhaps faster than some other guy or gal. So what? It’s not a race or competition, and you can get good exercise and have fun no matter what.
Consider poling a tandem canoe.
I just got off the Snake River, which is pretty large by Idaho standards. It’s a pushy and turbulent stretch where I was, but has almost no overhanging trees. Because of this, I can pole upstream hugging the bank on either side. Ferrying across to stay on the inside of every bend would be a waste of effort. Even on the outside bends with strong current, it is easy to go upstream using the micro eddies along the bank.
I made it up two miles in one hour without even working hard. If you tried paddling up this stretch with a double paddle, you’d have to work harder - and might not even be able to get past the rapids that I got to ride through on the way back down.
upstream
Eddy hoping is the first skill to learn. Practice reading the subtle movement of slow rivers. I have found that a kayak paddle makes paddling a canoe easier into the wind or upstream. Bigger boats are faster but less manoeuvrable. Any boat will work if you have the skills.
I met a guy that paddled the Colorado River upstream from the confluence with the Green R in Utah. People have used jet boats for the shuttle because the current is fast. Now people do it more commonly.
Bigger boats = less maneuverable
…except, not so much when poling. With practice and good secondary stability, a poler can easily edge a 16’ canoe so it will turn like a 12-footer. Makes following the bank that much easier, even with the occasional boulder or tree in the way.
well
Couldnt have been done without it…just saying.