Patriot vs ultimate 12

-- Last Updated: Jun-02-09 6:25 AM EST --

OHH tha delima! I'm a big guy folks, but I've paddled a tarpon 120 (the old one with a 28" width) for years. In the last year I started getting away from Lakes and paddling (for fishing purposes) more rivers and streams and thus I found the tarpon a bit tippy as I have very wide shoulders. I've since purchased a W/S ride 135 and while this is a terrific boat for stability, you need a football field to turn the thing, particularly when trying to turn into the flow. Any-who, I'm now considering either the Ultimate 12 which I understand has some draw backs as to water coming over the bow, expensive attachments,and the gunwall that tends to flex when pressure is applied to the feet, or a Perception/Mainstream Patriot. I don't know much about the boat other than I fit into it well. This includes getting my feet and knees in and out and not having to keep my feet twisted during the outing as I would in a Pungo or Pamlico. Anyone with intelligent thoughts please respond. Thank you and have a great paddle!

At once!
Wow! I expected to get at least one reply!

The “intelligent thoughts” thing brought
me up short. Don’t know much about the craft you describe. Would go for something from a company I know a little about, like a Necky Manitou or even a Liquid Logic Remix XP10.

Manuevering in rivers isn’t just hull design, it’s taking full advantage of differential currents.

advice .

– Last Updated: Jun-03-09 8:00 PM EST –

hi ..there's another thread in Pnet about the ult 12 vs the 14 ...locate that and read that thread fer info.
I have the Ult. 12 myself ....calm water boat. Not a fast water boat at all or for rapids. low freeboard. vey stable with a great seat.heavy for it's size. not all that impressed with foot pedals ( flimsy )but over all boat does well fer my back bays, ponds, small lazy streams fishing use.

I just sold a Mainstream Patriot
And for what it was, a very stable, entry level rotomolded brick, its ok.

But it sounds like the things you’d like to improve in the tarpon are just going to be repeated in the Patriot, which is kind of slow to turn.

G2D makes some good points in his post, especially regarding the mysteries of hull design as a contributing factor for the features you desire.

I’d say, if you can, go sit in some or ideally, demo some of the new crossover river runner/rec boats and check your comfort level, especially the foot thing.

The Liquid Logic Remix 10 is rated up to 300 lbs and IMHO its the nicest out of the current crossovers out there. Outfitting is super comfy, design is good, the bulkheads really function and are not pretend leaky dangerous things like in the Patriot.

Dagger makes the Approach and then I glanced at another new crossover last Friday at my dealer, but forget who made it.

Last but not least, don’t nix the idea of a skirt to keep water out of the cockpit. If you are on the river and hootin’ and hollerin’ even through the most tame class I ripples, water comes in over the bow into the cockpit in most everything!

Being wet isn’t the issue, having too much water in your boat that it doesn’t float well or steer right is. The Patriot, with its huge cockpit was not very good for anything but flatwater. If I went over a teeny ledge in it, I had to bail it out!

Good luck!

Thank you all
for your responses and I apologize about the intelligent thing. I won’t make that mistake again! LOL

Well I’m sort of ignorant

– Last Updated: Jun-06-09 1:46 PM EST –

but I'll add my .02. Seriously I'm a total beginner who just 5 minutes ago got back from my first demo opportunity and I find what your saying very interesting.
I paddled the
Tarpon 120 ultralite which I thought would be my first choice
Hurricane Phonix 120 (really more like 11 6)
Pungo 120
Ultra 12

I liked the Tarpon better than the HP mostly because the HP was stern heavy when carrying it single handed. In the water they didn't seem that different. The HP had the now old rotomolded foot rests boat not this years model so I don't know if that's different - either way no matter to you I just thought what you had to say about the Tarpon being tippy on rivers interesting because I thought it was tippy on a flat lake no wind and I want a river (not whitewater) rec boat.

As for the Ultra 12 - It seemed superwide even compared to the SOT's so I was surprised that it was noticeably faster and turned better to my mind than any of the other 3 that I tried (all rec boats to be sure). Remember though, beginner, flat water, no wind. Tracking seemed similar to the SOT's or maybe just slightly better .

Unfortunately the Ultra is a bit heavy for me at 55 lbs. The Tegris a bit pricey.
Plus I'm not sure I want to deal with emptying it of water.