oops
I’m tossing too many ideas in my head and not lining them up right. It’s a seperate idea,the one piece deck limits the possible curves on the sheer and height of the bow, if one insists the deck has to retain some curve going forward without folding then the sheer can’t curve up too much. The pre-glued sheer clamps limit the angle they meet to pretty much one curve looking down. Those two limits are why the earlier Cape Charles and Patuxents were such bad bow buriers. The Chesapeaks worked around that limit by increasing total volume and shifting the paddler back a bit but it becomes evident in the LT that the bow still gets kind of stuck in waves,where am I going with this, I’ll get back to you,it’s not coming out clearly.
read the questionn !!!
hey the person asked a specific question and that wasn’t for your rant on seats or other boats. I built 2 pygmys and have paddled a couple of the clc’s and they are nice boats but I think that the pygmys are a better hull design and stronger with their incapsulated hulls. I think that you would be happy with both boats and they are a lot of fun to build. Try contacting pygmy and they might be able to tell you of some one in your area who has a boat you can try. Gladesman
golly,thread monitor
If you’re going to be paddling for more than 20 minutes and you’ve got a tendency to develop numb legs/pinched sciatic nerve it’s pretty important after spending time and money making the thing to be able to paddle it with a good seat, and not have to go through $100s of dollars to find out what works for some folks.
If there’s a kayak kit that is of comparable design and can be bought/built for less that’s not a bad thing to hear about.
You might empathize with the ranting aspect if you’ve built a bunch of kayaks only to discover that some of them were derived on little to no testing and that your ability to build more is limited by the cumulatve exposure building someone elses learning experiences.
“Limit your options”
– Last Updated: Mar-20-04 2:32 PM EST –
To refresh your memory with a direct quote from the poster's message: "Demo'd Chesapeake17LT, and it still felt big." My reply to him addressed that point.
I suggested that the poster consider other kits as well as, not necessarily instead of, the Big Two. The Big Two are the ones with the most and biggest magazine ads, the ones that most paddlers have heard of if they know of wooden boats, and the ones that are most frequently seen.
That doesn't mean there are no other choices, some of which may be better for them, and maybe the factor that tips the choice IS the kind of seat in the kit, all other things being equally attractive. The post about the seat was not, "Don't buy Pygmy because the seat is inadequate." It was "Beware that this is the seat they provide." I know people who add up every little extra charge, and if they have to add on $17 or more for a different seat option, it matters in their decision.
I had …
“develop numb legs/pinched sciatic nerve” problems…
In my last Camero, which I had to sell…
but never had a problem with my Pygmys… should have tried the Thermorest pad in the car…
Ordered my Artic Tern Today
Hey guys, I really appreciate all of the info. I hope I can rely on you during the building process, since this will be my first built boat. I think I’ll do okay. I am a power lineman here in NC, and can usually figure things out. Building the boat won’t blow up on me will it? (smiles)
Kip Horton
ok
I tried but each time the answer got to three pages. Merganser, Arctic Tern are better designs and constuction,and paddling on water. The first time builder is more likely to have a kayak without twist or flatspots with hulls not built up from spread sheerclamps. The Chesapeake hull shape is outside the norm for fourpanel hulls, the chines are submerged nearly the entire hull length without adequate rocker to get the fine ends out of the water when leaning. It’s harder to compensate for mild weathercocking in the Chesapeake with paddler skill than the other two designs.
Sure for an all around kayak the Chesapeake is ok,a kayak doesn’t paddle itself and there are production kayaks that rely on a rudder for tracking/turning. But this one was built in isolation without testing or refinement. The Current Desgins Caribou started as a ply boat and could have been a reference for the Chesapeake (it preceded it) but the lineage was WoodenBoat crowd construction,not Sea Kayaker magazine paddler crowd so the standard for success was “does it go together?” not “how does it work/compare”.
For comparable levels of durability the Chesapeake will weigh about 4lbs more than the Merganser or Pygmy.
The Merganser has a better coaming recess than the Pygmy as it included thigh braces whereas thigh bracing in the Pygmy has to be added on.
Making flush hatches on a paneled deck is easier than on a bent deck.
You really don’t need a “hatch kit” to make flush hatches.
It’s like comparing a 1980 Chevy Citation to a Honda or Toyota. More Citations were sold in the beginning,then more Toyotas.
You’re gonna love it…
Just read both manuals first (twice)… The first step is the most critical, butt joints… take your time and enjoy…
Blowing up
This is unlikely to happen in a kayak build, but the local purveyors of epoxy and fiberglass told that someone had been injured when the multiple layers of fiberglass that he was piling on, slathered by epoxy in 100-degree weather, EXPLODED.
Epoxy can heat up to dangerous temperatures. Your kit should include a manual on how to use epoxy as well as one specifically for building your kayak.
Happy building!
Help
– Last Updated: Mar-22-04 3:49 PM EST –
If you poke around on the web you'll find alot of Pygmy builder's sites, and the archive at the builder's forum http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/Building/Building.html is a great resource.
Here's one site: This guy did a great job with photos, and he's got a "tips and tricks" page that might be helpful. http://home.rochester.rr.com/wreinert/osprey.htm
thermarest
I haven’t gone through all the posts here but I’m going on my 5th year in a Pygmy Coho and I’m still using the Thermarest seat. The only concession I have made is to make a thigh pad because my feet used to go to sleep. That wasn’t the fault of the seat pad. I have never had a “butt” problem with the thermarest. None the less, there are foam seats already made around or you can make your own from minicell. I have done that on an Old Town Castine. That hard plastic stuff is a pain in the butt.
thread hijack
ok,I admit I used this thread to criticise CLC for marketing marginally tested designs as well as illucidate kit choices. The following post from a kayak building thread was an answer to what an allergic reaction to epoxy can look like.
Given the possibility that someone spending upwards of $1000 and 3-12months building something with expections of getting a tested design it really should be a tested design because some people won’t be able to build another.
What kind of allergic reactions can epoxy resin cause?
In my case, three quarters of the way through my second boat, giant hives, swollen eyes, flu-like symptoms. I finished the boat with prescribed antihistames, full face mask and even more protective clothing, but really should not have continued working with the stuff. The hives took two weeks to clear up and now I can’t even be in the same room with a small amount of epoxy without getting a reaction to it. I’m lucky that a good friend has been willing to do small epoxy jobs for me in his own house.
The worst thing is that it seems to have stirred up a whole mess of other allergies that I was not troubled with before, including (sob) to red wine! White wine is OK though.
Sometimes it smells faintly of beer
That’s after it has been applied and is in the first couple days of curing. Very strange effect.
Some days I really, really don’t want to have anything to do with epoxy. It happens after I’ve been doing a lot of epoxying, such as layering on the fill coats.
It’s probably my body’s way of telling me to back off the exposure for a while. A few days later I’m ready to go at it again.
Got to do a 2nd fill coat on the hull today. I hope I don’t need to put on a 3rd one but I probably will.
aroma
it’s great stuff,I wanted to make furniture our of cardboard and epoxy after making the second kayak. Sometimes wondered if MAS slow epoxy had food aromatics added to it. It has a faint cherry cough drop aroma when the cured epoxy is drilled,it’s different than other epoxies.
reply to the forum monitor
Ease up on LeeG, Gladesman. Who are you going to believe, someone who has built several different kayaks and paddled dozens more, or the folks who designed several kayaks, and theirs are the best with no need to beta test or see what else is out there.
Maybe it’s unsolicited advice, but it’s sound advice. “I built two Pygmies” doesn’t tell me a damn thing about how they are to paddle.
Personally, I like the Pygmy AT better than the CLC designs I’ve paddled, but the Merganser and Cormorant beat both of the Big Two’s offerings.
Pygmy has the run on the market in encapsulated hulls? What is the epoxy encapsulating a CLC hull…pig snot? Nobody has the sole market on encapsulating hulls with epoxy…that technique is older than Pygmy or CLC, and you can do it with any damn boat you want to build.
If you just want ease of building, then refrain from giving kayak performance advice. If you want kayak performance advice, then open your eyes, open your ears, and listen and learn.
If you only want to build, then build whatever the heck looks good to you. Just don’t expect advice later on how to make your beautiful floating furniture paddle nicer than the crappy hull it may be. [/rant off]
Probably it’s too many PBR’s talking, but bad opinions like this are why I don’t read paddling.net more often.
but the taste!
It definitely doesn’t taste like beer! I accidentally got some on my lip the other day, didn’t realize it, and licked my lips. I believe I’ll stick to water! 