Either
a Dagger (now MRC) Legend 16, an MRC Royalex Explorer, or a Wenonah Prospector 16 could be made to serve your purpose.
They would all work for solo poling. I wouldn’t be eager to solo paddle any of them for a long distance without current, however.
Of them, the Legend would be the driest in whitewater, and the least fun to paddle without the assistance of current.
Prospecting for information
Be very careful when people talk about “Prospectors”. I attempted a serious analysis of “What the Heck is a Prospector?” on solotripping.com, and identified 17 different canoes called Prospectors in the Chestnut catalog and at least 32 contemporary canoes that bear that name. The specs for all these Prospectors vary widely and wildly, over every dimension.
The 16’ Explorers and Penobscots are essentially “one of” hulls. Prospectors aren’t. If you limit the discussion to the 16’ Wenonah Prospector, as you seem to be, then the conversation can take on a lot more meaning. BTW, that is the modern non-wood Prospector that, IMO, comes the closest to the specs of the 16’ Chestnut Prospector Fort, which was the model Bill Mason used.
The 16’ Royalex Explorer was my first canoe and I did everything in it – tandem, solo, oceans, lakes, whitewater, poling, rowing, and motoring. We often had two adults and three kids in that canoe on lakes, but I’m talking unladen day trips. The Explorer is a deep boat, so it will have more load capacity and freeboard than lots of other 16’ tandems.
My respect for the Explorer aside, I wouldn’t recommend Royalex except for regular whitewater use. It’s simply not possible to get tough, non-oil-canning Royalex plus light weight. The lightweight Royalex is floppy stuff. Lots of boaters complain that all Royalex today has been thinned-out in vain attempts to get lighter weight. You will see people advocating a one-year “cure time” for new Royalex boats. My old-Royalex Explorer oil cans big time.
Composite boats are much lighter, much stiffer, and hold much more elegant waterlines. I would advise looking for a used kevlar laminate (with FG or carbon) rather than buying a Royalex canoe.
Of your three sort of final candidates, I would today probably go for the Wenonah Prospector. It will be the turniest of the three boats, but if you and your paddling mates learn basic paddling skills, it should be a rewarding boat. But much more rewarding, IMO, in a kevlar composite layup.
I agree with all that, Glen.
…But should point out that I have had two composite canoes that oil-canned. One of them being my Malecite. The oil-canning is very slight in the Malecite (similar basic hull design to the Explorer, for the benefit of the OP)and only shows in the flatter areas of the hull, but it is there. My point being that hull shape can be as much a cause of oil-canning as the material.
For comparison, my old Penobscot shows absolutely no oil-canning. My NC Prospector (heavy royalex) shows none except when sliding over shoals with two paddlers on board. But it weighs 75lbs. From what I’ve seen - the rounder the bottom, the less likely it will be oil-canning.
I haven’t been around any composite Explorers, so I don’t know if they would reflect my experience with the Malecite (which, as far as the oil-canning is concerned, doesn’t bother me in the least), but I doubt that you would see any such hull flexing in a composite Wenonah Prospector.
My newish BellProspector
two years old…Rx. Does not oil can. A
I have seen composites oil can. I have a Wenonah that does so badly but it really doesnt count as its on the side wherer there is only one or two layers of Kevlar.
I have paddlled with a friend with a Kipawa that really did oilcan badly. It was a composite boat. I dont know how much that was caused by the taking out of the thwart but I suspect that allowed too much flexibility. That may be the reason my Bell Prospector does not oilcan. Its got three thwarts for a sixteen footer.
Prospecting for oil cans
OK, any material can oil can if it’s made flimsy enough and as it fatigues with age. That’s why foam stiffeners are put in really light weight composite layups.
I actually want some flex in the bottom for running logs and beaver dams. But when the bottom is flopping up and down in wavelets, that’s not good. WW boaters often solve this problem by jamming foam saddles under thwarts.
My primary argument in favor of composites is weight. Holding fine lines is second.
I believe the Bell and Swift Prospectors are the same DY hull. This DY interpretation is narrower and less deep at the ends than the Chestnut Prospector Fort, and is probably a little less rockered. To me, these may in fact be improvements over the Fort, and the Bell/Swift Prospector looks like it could be a very reasonable solo canoe. In fact, it is begging to be taken to the Pine Barrens this month for admiration.
Reconsidering Composites
Okay, thanks again to everyone. I’m now reconsidering composites. I’d wanted RX plastic as a reasonable price/weight/durability compromise, but I may have been underestimating the performance benefits of a good composite. I do want something that’s very durable and little-to-no maintenance, though. Again: I’m lazy, and I don’t want to worry about being especially gentle. And I worry that both mom and several of my friends are fairly inexperienced, so we’re sure to bang into some rocks from time to time.
I’m now strongly considering Clipper’s 16’ Prospector in their “Kevlar/Duraflex”. It’s 60lbs, which should be reasonable. Anyone have thoughts on that boat and/or layup?
Avalon?
And swinging back to the plastic boats, I’d also appreciate any thoughts people might offer on the Esquif Avalon, in terms of suitability for the conditions described. It seems like it might potentially be a good fit… but there are no reviews on this site, and only a handful I can find online.
Royalex Wenonah Solo Plus
Good for just about any situation and fast enough to race in the rec classes. Can easily be paddled tandem, solo, or with all 3 seats filled…
That’s a good suggestion too.
I’d considered the solo plus before and rejected it for some reason, but I can’t remember why (it probably wasn’t a good reason), and looking at it again it seems like a strong possibility.
I’d appreciate anyone else’s thoughts on that boat’s suitability for my situation. (And also on the Clipper Prospector/Clipper’s Kevlar Durafelx and the Esquif Avalon.)
Thanks again!
not mine
I would need a trailer…two other boats are already coming.
Hemlock Eagle?
What about Hemlock’s Eagle, in their premium+ layup? That seems like it might be a very good fit for what I’m looking for. Any thoughts?
Thanks again for all the advice.
Legends are short of rocker for my
taste. The venerable Old Town Tripper can handle the assignment. The no-longer-produced Dagger Dimension would be better in whitewater.
I’ll never figure out why MR resurrected the Legends. The Reflections, yes, and the Caption, but not the Legends.
So, with Penobscots now available
in 17’ and 18’ 6"?
Read your requirements again, and
I don’t think they are realistic. I think you should start with smaller tandems, and go on shorter, easier trips. Forget about anything over class 2, because you could put in below Pattons Run and take out above Lesser Wesser on the Nantahala, and you will STILL get swamped and arm weary.
Incidentally, a Penobscot 16 has no particular suitability for whitewater. It isn’t maneuverable enough. Lots of people, inluding a good friend of mine, have used the Pen 16 for downriver racing on whitewater, but it is not maneuverable enough to really do anything on whitewater rivers.
Okay, No Class III
Since lots of people seem to be raising issue with it, please mentally strike the words “with occasional class III” from my original post. No class III. Some flatwater, lots of mild rivers, some mild rapis (class I and II).
Easier to make any recommendations now? Thoughts on any of the boats I’ve suggested?
This will upset some…
Get the Prospector.
It is the safest bet to do all that you list. No - it won’t be terribly efficient for solo work (although surprisingly so, if you learn Canadian style), and yes it gets blown about by the wind when lightly loaded - but with tandem tripping and poling and as much as class 2 on the menu, it won’t let you down. Wenonah, Nova Craft, Bell or similar will do fine.
Get to paddling and learning to pole. Worry about the finer points of hull design later.
Thanks.
In some sense I know that–the Prospector is after all known as the quintessentially “versatile” design. (Even though the specifics of the actual ‘design’ vary quite a bit from builder to builder.) In fact, I nearly pulled the trigger on one about a week ago. (And I might yet end up with one.)
But! I do think I’d probably be better off with something slightly more geared towards calm water. (Or possibly just one of the more calm-water-oriented Prospector designs, although I’m not sure whose that would be. Maybe Clipper’s?) That’s why I’ve turned my thinking towards boats like Hemlock’s Eagle, Esquif’s Avalon, etc.
Right now, I’d say my top contenders (in no particular order) are:
–Wenonah Prospector 16’ RX (I worry this won’t do as well solo in flatwater)
–Clipper Prospector 16’ in Duraflex (maybe a slightly better design for me?)
–Esquif Avalon (I don’t know a ton about this boat (beyond the specs on Esquif’s website), but its description sounds just right, and I’ve heard great things about the company)
–Esquif Mistral, too, I suppose, although I worry about the material
–Mohawk Nova 16 (similar to the Avalon in that I don’t know a ton about this boat beyond the specs on the website)
–OT Penobscot 16 (I think I’ve concluded that this may probably not be the best choice for me, but I might end up with a chance to pick one up at a reasonable price, which I might do)
–Hemlock Eagle (premium+ hull) (I’d really love to hear more opinions on this boat–it seems like it might be a very good match for me, and I’m strongly considering it, but there’s no chance I’ll be able to test paddle one first, and it’s a very expensive boat. So I’d love to hear more from anyone who is familiar with the boat, and who might know which of the things that I’m looking to do will this boat be better or worse for)
–Hellman Scout (duratuff)
–Swift Mattawa (expedition kevlar) (like the Penobscot, this is probably not the ideal boat for me, but I might end up with a chance to pick a used one up at a reasonable price, which I would consider doing)
I’m sure at the end of the day basically any of these boats would be fine, and any of them would certainly be better than nothing. But I probably won’t be able to buy a second boat (due to space constraints, not finances), at least as long as the first still floats, so I’m really hoping to find the best overall fit.
Thanks again.
Esquif Mistral
Did you mention that? I have had one since last winter. IMHO it will do all you are asking for. Downside is that it has a lot of rocker for flat water paddling. That said, it paddles very efficiently for a boat with large stems and 3" rocker. I got lucky and got mine very cheap from a guy that didn’t think it had good enough primary stability. Compared to, say, an OT Penobscot it is “Rock solid” IMHO.
As for Twintex, I too was concerned. But I’ve heard those who’ve had problems with delamination have had excellent service from Esquif. As for my own qualms, I have none now. I’ve beat it up more than I intended too and due to it’s durability use it for my every day “Beater” boat. I put a 3rd seat in it and that works very well as the bow seat becomes a footbrace.
Another concern I had was that the dark interior would be hot in the summertime. Having owned an Olive colored Wenonah royalex boat many moons ago, I remember that interior being very hot in the summer. Not an issue with the Twintex, only the black vinyl gunnels were hot when paddling in 90-100 degree summertime temps in the Ozarks.
Those boys will grow faster than you think. I believe the Mistral would suit your needs more than many of the others listed, PLUS (SHhhhhhhh) you COULD bag it and use it for some WW if you want. Here’s a few pics of mine. WW
http://www.pbase.com/ozarkpaddler/image/126055545
http://www.pbase.com/ozarkpaddler/image/126674476
http://www.pbase.com/ozarkpaddler/image/126895161
http://www.pbase.com/ozarkpaddler/image/124568775
I simply would not buy anything that
– Last Updated: Oct-28-10 11:54 AM EST –
I could not paddle first under the conditions I will most be using it.
You can solo a Prospector. Its about you learning to control it from near center and heeling it. It does take some time and I dont know if you have the time to learn Canadian Style.
Sure I have paddled the Eagle. But again if you cannot try it, its presumptious of me to decide for you.
Back when I started there were not that many choices. We just got a small Grumman and we had great times until it for some reason gained too much weight for Quetico trips. That Grumman went on everything..perhaps things that people nowadays would say are unsuitable for it.
I’ve paddled everything I can
"I simply would not buy anything that I could not paddle first under the conditions I will most be using it."
This is ideal, agreed, but would limit my choices severely, to a set of boats that are all far from suitable for me. Which is why I’m asking for advice.