I may be able to get a deal on a floor model:
P&H Revenge Polo Kayak.
Anyone know anything about Polo Kayaks?
Would it be suitable for exploring in small creeks and maybe some downstream runs on class I - II???
Seems to have a lot of rocker, 9’8" length, 23" beam.
On paper it seems OK for bashing around in shallow and narrow creeks.
I’d rather get something a little off/odd than use a rec. boat.
Any opinions???
Seems a shame not to use it for polo
– Last Updated: Jan-05-09 11:50 AM EST –
Here's a floor model for $800.
http://www.riversidekayak.com/About/Specials/index.htm
Seems a shame not to use it for polo.
These are fairly specialized boats. That would tend to mean that they are relatively expensive.
That is, you might me spending more than you'd need too.
Note that these are designed to turn. Have you ever paddled a "normal" white water boat for any distance? It's rather annoying.
Keep in mind to that the "squishy" bow and stern are designed not to avoid injuring other kayakers. They aren't designed for abuse like running into rocks.
Look for a cheap used Dagger RPM. It would be fine for WW and isn't too bad on flatwater.
Like I said, could get a deal…
$500, maybe talk them down lower as they have not been able to move it out of shop for what seems like forever…
Never paddled a white water boat…
Again, just from looking at it: seems it would track a little better than a WW, OK speed.
Wouldn’t tour in the thing. Just looking for a quality boat at a good price for playing in narrow, low volume creeks mostly. Occasional downstream run on class I-II…
Here’s a link to a pic:
http://www.bournemouthcanoes.co.uk/productpages/polo/revenge.htm
Hard to say how well it would “track”
“Again, just from looking at it: seems it would track a little better than a WW, OK speed.”
Think about how the boat is intended to be used. There isn’t really much of a need to track very well in kayak polo.
It could track worse than a non-play boat. And the speed would probably not be OK.
Buy a regular WW kayak.
“$500, maybe talk them down lower as they have not been able to move it out of shop for what seems like forever”
So, think about that too. You are not likely to have been the first person to look at it. Let the poor thing do what it’s supposed to be used for!
“Never paddled a white water boat…”
Start with that. Then decide.
Depending on how small the creeks, I might prefer to use my 16 foot seakayak to “explore small creeks” instead of my WW boat!
No desire to play polo…
– Last Updated: Jan-05-09 12:21 PM EST –
More emphasis on up and down the small creeks (primary goal).
Less concern about down stream runs on classed rapids (that would happen only rarely).
Very low volume, slow moving, narrow creeks.
My Skye17 is no good for it at 16'7".
Also got a Nantucket at 14'9" it is sometimes too long.
Ditto the AdventureXL 139 at 13'9"...
Want a shorter length, but still narrow beam. Rec boats are out for this reason.
Don't think a regular WW boat will go upstream in such a tight spot.
Any alternate suggestions???
I already know I am a madman, so who cares if I show up in a Polo boat to get muddy???
Polo boats handle roughly like slalom
kayaks, but with even more emphasis on violent acceleration, pivot turns. They won’t carve as well as slalom boats. They will coast better than modern playboats.
I have a slalom c-1, and if I could fit into a polo boat, I would rather have it than an RPM. But a polo boat has no special edge for just poking around easy creeks.
It’s a polo boat
It definitely won’t track.
This is probably not a big deal for your stated intended use, but does it have internal pillars to prevent the hull from collapsing if it gets pinned? Not much pinning potential in polo.
You should be able to find something better for your needs for less.
WW -> river runner
– Last Updated: Jan-05-09 12:53 PM EST –
"Don't think a regular WW boat will go upstream in such a tight spot."
An white water boat that isn't a "play boat" would have no problem going upstream against a slow current.
Look for an RPM or an Inazone 222/232 WW kayak.
Try one before you buy one.
How about a canoe for them small creeks?
Suggestions
– Last Updated: Jan-05-09 12:52 PM EST –
"They will coast better than modern playboats."
Almost anything will coast better than a playboat!
"I have a slalom c-1, and if I could fit into a polo boat, I would rather have it than an RPM."
Given that you have paddled (and own) a slalom boat, it makes sense that the RPM would not be something you'd choose for yourself.
The RPM is OK as a flatwater boat (my Pyranha I:4 is poor) and would be fine for occasional class I-II and poking around in small creeks.
It's also large enough that most people will be comfortable in it. And it's reasonably "fast".
Plus, they should be available relatively cheap.
I'm considering an RPM for afterwork flatwater paddles because it would fit in my car.
Actually if he can get that Revenge
for $500 as stated, it is a good deal. I can’t think of any water environment where the handling of that polo boat would be generally inferior to the RPM, and once one gets up enough speed to engage the rails, it will track better. My objection to the RPM was always that the bottom was too elliptical and it lacked rails for control. Anyway, the Axiom will be released any time, and then we will see if Dagger has updated the essence of their most popular boat.
Cheap alternatives
– Last Updated: Jan-05-09 3:05 PM EST –
"Actually if he can get that Revenge for $500 as stated, it is a good deal."
It certainly would be a "good deal" if he was looking for that particular boat (or a polo boat).
It isn't necessarily such a good deal for someone who has never been in a WW boat. It's not like this is a "deal" that he "should not pass up". It isn't so "spectacular" that he should spend the time to look at more "conventional" alternatives. It isn't that hard to find a boat that would work for $500 (or less).
He could buy a used kayak for less money. It would likely be easier to sell another kind of boat if he decided he didn't like it.
What he should probably do is talk to a local WW club for advice (or a boat).
==>> How well would the rubber ends hold up against rocks?
"I can't think of any water environment where the handling of that polo boat would be generally *inferior* to the RPM"
The RPM would likely be cheaper and easier to resell. I haven't paddled the Revenge on flatwater but the RPM is OK for that.
My I:4 has rails and the RPM is much easier to keep in a straight line on flatwater.
"Anyway, the Axiom will be released any time, and then we will see if Dagger has updated the essence of their most popular boat."
Any new boat will likely be much more than $500!
A swimming pool IS flatwater.
And,like I said, if I could fit in it, I would try to get that polo boat myself. It would make an excellent plastic boat for slamming around whitewater, though perhaps not as good as a Fox.
You are right to question whether the Revenge is a good buy for someone who just wants to poke around woody creeks. But based on what I have experienced about boat design, I don’t think a used RPM is any better. As for resale, how many times can an RPM be sold? I think the RPM market will collapse just as soon as Remixes appear in used form.
Incidentally, is an I4 really comparable at all to an RPM or the Revenge??
A swimming pool is SMALL
– Last Updated: Jan-05-09 5:00 PM EST –
A swimming pool is small. So the fact that it is "flatwater" is irrelevant because you are spending most of the time turning. You really don't need tracking for a pool.
"And, like I said, if I could fit in it, I would try to get that polo boat myself."
It might be a good buy for you. It isn't clear that it would be a good buy for the OP just because it's 50% off. There is nothing compelling for the OP (who has never been in a WW boat) about this "opportunity".
"It would make an excellent plastic boat for slamming around whitewater,"
I wonder how well/long those rubber ends would hold up. If it was so "excellent", I would think you'd see more of them on the river.
"But based on what I have experienced about boat design, I don't think a used RPM is any better."
A used RPM would likely be cheaper.
"As for resale, how many times can an RPM be sold?"
Only the condition of the boat matters. And, still, it likely would be rather difficult to sell the polo boat.
"I think the RPM market will collapse just as soon as Remixes appear in used form."
That could be. If the market "collapses", that means they'd even be cheaper!
"Incidentally, is an I4 really comparable at all to an RPM or the Revenge??"
No, that's why I mentioned it. It is poor for flatwater where the RPM is OK. The RPM works OK for a 2 mile flatwater lake and the I4 is annoying. The RPM would also be easier for a beginner in WW than the I4 would be.
"You are right to question whether the Revenge is a good buy for someone who just wants to poke around woody creeks."
That is kind of important to keep in mind.
The rubber ends are there because
polo boats often bang into the pool walls. The ends give the boats a longer life. There is a phenomenon that one might call dynamic tracking which is experienced in slalom boats and polo boats. Once accelerated close to full speed, the boat tracks on its rails, and on a river, may actually fly right out the backside of an eddy if the paddler does not match the speed to the situation.
I will admit that I have a hard time imagining an issue about tracking because whitewater boats track for me. Anyone who has been paddling c-1 since '74 does not have serious tracking issues in kayaks. Certainly not on the kind of water the author of this thread describes.
No real surprise
– Last Updated: Jan-05-09 6:46 PM EST –
"Anyone who has been paddling c-1 since '74 does not have serious tracking issues in kayaks."
No real surprise!
"Certainly not on the kind of water the author of this thread describes."
You don't need a lot of tracking on the kind of water the OP describes.
All Righty Then…
I get that njkayaker wants the polo boat to remain free to play polo and not get sullied by a muddy old creek…
And I get that g2d likes going back and forth with njkayaker…
Guess mintjulep hit on one argument the other two didn’t think of…
No one has paddled one then? I still might see if I can demo it. The shop is near a small river…
Also got an e-mail from someone who saw this post and they are offering a deal on a slightly used Perception Pirouette Super Sport.
I will definitely be looking at that one.
Any feedback on the Pirouette?
“The ends give the boats a longer life”
“Polo boats often bang into the pool walls. The ends give the boats a longer life.”
I think the ends are designed to give pools a longer life, not the boat.
Better
and cheaper alternatives for messing around. Low volume and track but roll real easy. If you don’t like it resale could be tough.
More fun to get an old school boat. Should be able to pick up a Dancer, Pirouete, RPM or Cruise Control pretty cheap.