Post-lifting protein/carbs

you got most of it right alfope

– Last Updated: Oct-12-07 4:33 PM EST –

I think I agree with almost all you say alfope.

I don't agree that you can apply UNLIMITED force with the wing blade. Water moves out of the way of all blades. Surface area and stroke angle are what determine how much of your available unlimited force is TRANSFERED to the water. Like I said, you can have a big engine, you need big traction to get it moving.

The power to weight ratio you got right. I would like to see a sensor connected to some of these paddles. The force is zero in the air, then increases rapidly as you get a bite, fairly constant during the stroke and decreases rapidly during pull out. It is a time-thrust equation. You can move that paddle faster, reduce your time but increases thrust. Unless the water is concrete where your paddle enters, you are going to waste energy by moving it past a certain thrust limit.

My point was, I would NOT try to bulk up for paddling events. I would try to build reasonable strength, but excellent endurance. Paddling is not rock climbing. There I would go for strength. The rock does not move out of the way, you can apply full force and get full benefits.

More muscle is more weight, period. More weight is more drag. More drag means more thrust required to reach speed X. Using paddle style A perfectly will result in kayaker going speed X. Add weight, slow down. But you will look great in third place next to that skinny guy on the upper podium.

calories and weight gain
It is not true that adding 390 to 400+ calories a day will cause weight gain. It will if you do not work out sufficiently to burn those calories. You work the muscles… you need to feed the muscles. You starve the muscles… they still get nourishment from themselves. I tried every type of weight gain and weight loss principles out there. I tried just about every supplement out on the market at one time or another. Just do what you are doing. Mix up your routine or you’ll plateau. Try eating something carb related 30 min to 1 hour before working out. A higher protein to carb ratio within one hour after. You will get strength without the weight. Cardio every day. Higher weights one day 12-10-8 reps. Lower weights next day 18-16-14 reps. From what you post, you are in excellent shape with the ol ticker at 150-165-175 bpm! Bravo! Try doing as many core and back excercises as you can find. I have a bad back from a car accident, and have found those target excercises to be very helpful for paddling strength. Let me know what you find out works for you.

how many calories to gain or lose a poun
It takes 3500 calories to make a pound? Figure out your daily needs and factor in your workout caloric burn. Eat slightly less and lose some… eat slightly more and gain some. So damned scientific… too many factors.

Balance is most important.
I’ve lifted and done endurance sports for over 20 years. I’ve learned a lot about how my body responds to almost all aspects of exercise and I’m pretty up on the science too. As far as diet, just eat well. Try to keep your protein/fat/carb ratios in line with normal recommendations. If you work out hard, eat a little more. A post workout meal is critical but doesn’t have to be anything more than an easily digestible snack in the 200-300 cal range. A little extra protein, maybe a hard boiled egg or something, is really good but a balanced meal is the key to good recovery. When you work out, you use carbs for energy. When you recover, you use protein to rebuild your muscles. Recovery starts right away so you need a little more post-workout, but carbs are most important.



As far as how to lift, it depends on what kind of racing you’re doing. For sprinting you can use as much muscle and strength as you can get. If you’re racing distances, too much muscle will hurt you more than help. Muscle tissue is very hungry and uses a lot of the limited supply of oxygen and metabolic fuel in your body. More muscle than you need will just sap your strength. A pyramid set routine (12-10-8) is fine for building mass and strength, but I wouldn’t do it every workout. I also wouldn’t do a split routine. I’d do whole body 1-2 sets per exercise, 2-3 exercises per body area, 2-3 times a week, depending on how well you recover and what other workouts you do. Recovery is absolutely key. Rest is as important as your workouts. Get at least one day of complete rest a week. I like to do my hardest workout, then a light workout, then full rest.



You need to be honest about your goals. Lots of guys go into a weight regimen saying that they want to perform better but they really want to look better. There’s nothing wrong with that but if you want to achieve specific goals you have to train specifically.



Good luck.

Are we talking Power?
How about maximum power and maximum continuous power?

When you line up against a great paddler and the gun goes off, the great paddler starts moving away from you- usually in the first 20 seconds. He is applying more force more effectively on the water than you are. If you doubled your upper body paddling muscle mass, you would stay near him briefly- about 1 minute, until fatigue set in because your fuel and cardio system can not support the higher power output. A skinny low muscle mass paddler with high cardio system won’t be able to match the force on the water, using the limited muscle as hard as he can. He would have to be very efficient and cause much less drag from boat wetted surface area to match the great paddler.



So the compromise is: goodly amounts of paddling muscle mass with the best genetically possible cardio conditioning you can achieve, in order to make the breakaway at the start, jump gaps, slog at high power usage into the wind and adverse conditions, and have some strength and cardio left at race end to apply more power and be slightly ahead.

Less muscle puts you in the middle of the pack: slow to accelerate, slower turns, taking much longer to close gaps because the differential speeds are small, and being left in the sprint.

The great paddler can put out more power longer than the rest of us. He also has great form, training, cardio, fueling, knowledge, work ethic, and much hard work in the past that got him where he is.


sounds like Andrew needs a Doctor.

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.hey Andrew,

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know any Doctors :wink:

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BTW your old Futura II is still a great boat- wins me some local races as well!!!

lots of good thoughts here
nice comments and arguments from various sides. i race C1s and am 6.1, 175 pounds. i see guys on the course who are much more muscular. but i don’t know if me gaining weight would even that out or if it would make me slower. different people have diferent builds. i think of lifting hard, too, but i wonder if i shouldn’t concentrate on paddling, a moderate strength routing and working on flexibility.



keep us informed as to your progress next season.

routine
i think i’ve pretty well settled into every other day freemotion cable lifting, 12/10/8, upper body and core, concentrating on compound motions, alternating with 45 minutes speedstroke (20 min steadystate at 75%HR, 20 minutes 2 on/ 3 off intervals at sprint) and 30-45 minutes elliptical and rowing erg, also at 75-80%. and pushups. and one long day on the water each week, mostly steadystate work for now, just enjoying being out and sprinting for wakes.



i don’t know how scientific it is, but i feel like i’m working reasonably hard. time will tell, i guess.



and i’m eating my protein bar, as advised.



thanks all,



andrew

Tuna Fish and Eggs.

– Last Updated: Oct-17-07 4:05 AM EST –

High protein sources. Very high.

Calories: almost none, afolpe

Enjoy natural foods. An egg or two a day will not be heart-clogging unless you have familial hyperlipidemia. Plenty about this on-line.

Tuna is the cheapest and best pure protein source. Right outta the can (use the cut lid to crunch down and drain all juice; only buy tuna in water, not oil) with a little soy sauce or just salt. Maybe some no-fat mayo. Sometimes add relish. Other times some oregano or other spices. Get creative. My college roomie was a bodybuilder, and used to down 2-3 cans of tuna daily. Check the package label.

Addendum: went to the pantry to check for myself what Lee (that's the college jock roomie. Shout out to you, Lee in CT) already knows in one can:
Total Fat 0.5 grams
Chol 30mg (10% daily allowance)
Sodium 250mg (10% daily allowance)
Carbs Zero! Zilch.
Protein: 13 grams! (23 % daily allowance).
(a steak has about 16 grams of protein in a big cut, and plenty of fat)
Bonus: anti-cancer and heart disease omega3 fatty acids, which are all the rage and healthy.
Cost: 89 cents per can

Now, here's the kicker that I was holding out from you. Grab a traditional six ounce tuna can and read it: the above info I gave you is per serving, and each tuna can has, according to label, 2.5 servings!!!!

So, one can of tuna that you can down in about ten minutes has, incredibly, 39 grams of almost pure protein!!!! You can't down enough steak at $5/lb or protein blended powders at $3/glass to equal this giant dose or readily digestable, all natura protein at 89 cents. (less if you buy it by the case at Sam's)

Sure, people will call you Felix the Cat, but who cares, better than farting all day long from protein powder shakes.

I think I'm gonna have a date with Charlie Tuna right about now. I'm feeling stronger just looking at this can.

mercury and overfishing
have taken the joy out of tuna for me.

tuna
It’s the chicken of the sea! I have a can everyday myself. As far as protein shakes go… I am a construction man… farting all day is par for my course! :slight_smile: