more power?
“I think the Epic statement is trying to say that the paddle creates more power, therefore you will necessarily go faster.”
I agree that is what Epic is trying to say. But it is not necessarily correct. For each person there will be a paddle that creates the most power. A larger paddle, or a smaller, will result in less power and therefore less speed, or efficiency.
Agreed
Yes, I agree that the statement is probably not correct.
Wing Paddles Simply Generate, Trap and
Release vortices better than conventional paddles in propelling kayaks.
The bike analogy stinks, IMO
– Last Updated: Jun-26-13 9:08 AM EST –
Smaller blades do not let you increase cadence like smaller gears on a bike. On a bike, you pedal faster with a smaller gear. Your wheels do not slip against the road because you changed gears. On a kayak, your cadence should be just as fast, regardless of the blade size too! If the cadence increases with a smaller blade, all else being equivalent, this means you are losing power to slippage. The benefit of slippage is that, you can overpower the blade a bit and thus avoid putting undue stress on your body. However, I would think that a more efficient way to increase cadence is to move the boat faster or to shorten the stroke, while maintaining a blade size just big enough to not have much slippage for the pull you normally put against it. So, more of the paddler's effort goes to forward propulsion vs. stirring the water and making bubbles :)
Drag-based vs. lift-based
– Last Updated: Jun-26-13 9:55 AM EST –
Actually, there is a fundamental difference between drag-based and lift-based propulsion. The first creates propulsive force in the direction of the paddle motion, the other generates propulsive force at a right angle to the paddle motion.
A standard EP in drag mode is pulled straight back and generates a drag force and corresponding driving force in the direction of travel.
A wing paddle used properly moves laterally and generates a thrust force at a right angle to its motion (it's generally called lift, but it doesn't point upwards in this case). Because the paddle doesn't move exactly perpendicular to the direction of travel of the boat, there are off-axis thrust (lift) components - these are the forces that you feel trying to roll the boat when the paddle is really working well.
Both modes of propulsion can exist at the same time, it's a matter of degree. But they are not the same mechanism.
excellent
An excellent and correct description of drag and lift.
My experience is that with a smaller Euro (drag) paddle, my cadence is faster. I have not experimented with different blade sizes on wings, but would be surprised if it did not do the same.
Also a shorter stroke, as with a wing, will increase cadence.
Also a shorter length paddle.
Which modification will make your boat go faster depends on your body dynamics and the quality of your technique.
later posts
Some of these later posts have been very informative. Nice work you guys.
Micro-percentages here folks
– Last Updated: Jun-26-13 12:17 PM EST –
We are talking ""small"" advantages here,
very small percentages, that are easily
cancelled by bad form, technique, etc.,etc.
Olympic athletes attempt perfection;
few paddlers get the coaching, critique, and analysis
to tweak and refine "everything" for those last
few 100's of a second, maybe a 10th of a second advantage.
There comes a point when people chase ghosts on the water,
items that can barely be measured in real world conditions.
Considerable Degree Exists
between lift and drag components, with drag being the major contributor. Swimmers, years ago abandoned the lift theory in favor of drag. However, there’s still a technique lag in kayaking, but it is changing, with up to date coaches now emphasizing parallel rather than lateral strokes. It is no longer cool to lead with the edge, but rather “explode” (Newtonian Lift?) up front at the catch.
Huh?
I have almost no idea what you’re trying to say - what’s the point of the comparison to swimmers? Swimmers don’t use paddles.
The latest coaching trend would not be my chosen path to understanding flow physics. And Newtonian lift? What is that, the opposite of quantum lift?
Except During Practice
They may not use paddles, but they were the first to embrace lift (Counsilman), but went back to drag about the same time kayakers discovered it. You’ll notice a quantum leap in your performance if you “lock” your blade in the water and pivot pass it, rather than moving it laterally away from you.
don’t forget gravitational potential
energy which you championed in one of the forward stroke discussions!
As an Aging Kayaker
I have not forgotten GPE. Only wish I could couple it with a bit of rotation, then I’d really fly over the water like skipping stone?
My Onno Provides Superior Jerk and
Jounce.
No bullshit.
Again, huh?
– Last Updated: Jun-27-13 4:49 PM EST –
Based on your comment, we should all be removing the propellers from our boats and going back to paddle wheels.
Sorry Clyde, you don't make any sense at all...
You can’t “lock” and move past
– Last Updated: Jun-27-13 4:52 PM EST –
If you watch some slow mo videos of proper flat water paddling technique for sprint racing, you will see how they achieve the "lock" - they use the lift generated on the downward motion at the catch and the upward motion of the release. And I have yet to see a racer with a double bladed paddle pull straigth back. They all use lateral motion out. For several reasons. One is the mechanical workings, the other has to do with the hydrodynamic efficiency gained by the lateral motion (lift plus minimizing turbulence through the slicing motion).
The only people who pull parallel to the boat are single bladers (canoe, sup) and they too use the "down-up" lift to their advantage. They simply can't benefit from lateral lift as they have to make do with symmetrical blades, unlike double-bladed paddlers.
If "your" way was better, all paddlers would have reverted to it. They and their coaches are not that "slow" to figure out what's advantageous to them. Unlike what you imply, paddlers started with pulling technique in yesteryears and all reverted to the wing technique because it is clearly advantageous to them. Swimmers don't have wings. But just about every animal that flies or swims uses a wing technique. I wonder why...
Oh
Oh seadart, that comment is so derivative…
it’s the loading and unloading!
what willi said
Ad copy isn’t written by engineers.
ROFL
This IS the post of the day