protection with a firearm

I know that some people that take trips around alaska and other places with a large bear population bring firearms…besides the bears what about protection from looters and crazy people…I was wanting to know what kind of protection other people use and if a firearm what kind and what kind of permit do you need??

Gadzooks! Dis is gon’na be good…

– Last Updated: Feb-24-09 2:29 PM EST –

fer at least 100+ replies.

Ah' gots more friggin' baars wanderin' through me property each season than ah' ever saw in de wilds. Make some noise so dems know yer comin' an' iffin' yer want pack some baar spray.
No looters ever encountered, but plenty o' crazy folks (it's Joisey, wad'da youz expect!)


Laws vary state-by-state. Most require a permit to carry a firearm concealed on your person. Some don’t require a permit to carry openly or in your gear. Rules are often different for handguns and long arms.

Do your homework for the places you’re going to be.

since we never met FE,
there must be more then two crazys in the Garden State.

I haven’t heard any boaters having

– Last Updated: Feb-24-09 3:33 PM EST –

problems with looters or "crazy people." The only crazy people you're likely to run into are drunks. I worked with "crazy people" in a huge state psychiatric hospital for 18 years, and I'd much rather deal with them than with drunks.

If you are really burdened by these ideas, maybe you should get some counseling, or a medication to decrease your paranoia. Or, have a couple of drinks.

Join the NRA.
Seriously, they have a wealth of state information available, and they need your support! And a short but legal shotgun is hard to beat. And generally speaking, easier to get approved.

FA is from Noo Joizee? I would have figured some place with lots of snakes and 'gators! Ken…

You need to carry a .454 Casull in
peppermint. I hear bears like that flavor.

I am lucky enough to visit alaska
camping, canoeing etc. Forget the handgun, carry a high power rifle or a shotgun loaded with slugs.

Tremendously more powerful, easier to handle, fewer laws to figure out. Even Canada allows long guns to be carried in the outback.

My personal preference… Marlin .444 lever action(the new tighter twist barrel). Load that baby with some of the 305gr. solid points… it will stop almost anything.

I don’t know about …
bears in Alaska, but if you’re paddling somewhere that you’re worried about crazies, you might want to re-look where you’re paddling.

Thats the thing about crazies

– Last Updated: Feb-24-09 6:08 PM EST –

you never know who they are where they might pop up or what you did or said to tick them off. No place is 100% free of nut jobs. Landowers who think they own the land under your boat, drunks, druggies, criminals, crank labs, country bumpkins lookin' to scare the city slickers and poachers all go in the "crazies" pile in my book.

the thing about the crazies…
They act friendly though a bit odd, get to talking with you and next thing you know they’ve grabbed the gun you had to protect you from the crazies and have it aimed at your head. Then there’s the dumb friend of yours that thinks it’s funny to pretend to be a bear behind a bush and so you blow your friend away (I know, get smarter friends).

angstron and CapnKen got it right…

– Last Updated: Feb-24-09 6:25 PM EST –

As angstrom said, do your research state by state where you may be. If you feel the need to get a concealed weapons permit in your home state, you may have reciprocity to carry concealed in SOME other states. Check out: and other similar sites for more state by state and reciprocity info. Do get properly trained in the safe and efficient operation and maintenence of your firearm and tactical deployment scenarios. There are states that have open carry laws, but many of those also have laws that if folks feel at all threatened by what you are doing--and someone probably will--you may be prosecuted. You don't want to be a test case. You'll likely at least be contacted by police which isn't helpful for anyone typically. Carry concealed very discreetly and carefully--it is not something to trifle with.

Some people are so afaid of a gun, they won't even touch it. A little proper education will go along way to alleviate that. Contacting the NRA is a great way to start down the proper road to firearm safety education as marksmenship and education are two main reasons for the NRA to exist.

Thank your freedom minded founding fathers and those that died for the 2nd Ammemdment right given us to self-defense and a potential way to rise up against governmnent. These people realized that, in our constitution, there needed to be a provision that the people could arm themselves and rise up against the government if that need ever became reality, God forbid. They'd just lived through that and it was citizens bearing arms individually that brought this great country into being. Many of those people died to give us this right and the individual bearing arms for their defense and freedom is a large part of what formed this country in the first place.

Depending on what kind of 'critters' you are concerned about (whatever 'they' are, educate yourself as much as possible about the critters, so that you can make quick and wise judgements concerning their behavior), there are differing options. If you are only in black bear country, it may be much easier to carry a handgun powerful (with proper ammunition selection) enough to dispatch a black bear, which I think would take care of any other problem critters. A shotgun may be more difficult to carry/stow. If you did carry a shotgun for grizzlies/brown bears in AK, I'd look at 12 guage 3 1/2" slugs. A 12 gauage has 2 3/4", 3" and 3 1/2" shells with the longer shells being more powerful. Even this power pales in comparison to a big bore, highpower rifle which would provide better penetration to put down an animal quickly and humanely, if necessary. If it was up to me in AK, I'd carry something like a .416 Rigby or .460 Weatherby in a short barrel with a large magazine capacity.

Some published size and power minimums I've run across from those that handgun hunt for black bears: at least .40 caliber in diameter, at least a 200 grain bullet going at least 1000 feet per second (fps) at the muzzle. The bullet must be engineered for dealing with a bear sized critter. Many handgun hunters use the Hornady XTP bullet. It's slower to expand than ammo used for personal protection agains 2 legged critters, so it will penetrate to the vitals of a larger animal, if necessary. It's not the best bullet for home protection as it will tend to penetrate a 'target' and keep on going--liability and responsibility you don't want. Picking the ammunition for the job is key here.

From what I have seen, the very popular .40 S&W (Smith and Wesson) round in an auto pistol (Glock, Smith and Wesson M&P among others--typically have 15-16+ round magazines--not enough when there's a bear or 2 legged critter coming at you) is about the best compromise between being easily conceable, but still having the ummpph, using properly selected ammuntion, to deal with even a large black bear and any other smaller sized critter. The only commercially available ammo a .40 S&W can do this with that I know of is made by a company called Double Tap and sold at Midway USA. For personal protection with any pistol, a tremendouse percentage of law enforcement agencies across the country use Speer Gold Dot ammo. Expensive, but very accurate and engineered and built well for a job I hope none of us ever have to do.

I am the expert on crazies. Where
are you seeing them? I had lots in the hospital, a few in downtown Atlanta, but NONE in the bush!

Do you really mean drunks, or just people for whom your social skills were inadequate?

You don’t really think, espeically in your apparent line of work, that the ‘crazies’ as you call them are only in the mental hospital or big cities?

You didn’t read what I said carefully.
I have certainly seen them in Atlanta. But in almost 40 years of camping and paddling, I have not seen them in the outdoors. I remember one incident when teens drove through a campground and were making threatening statements. It would not have done anyone any good at all for me to shoot them, and I would have ended up in prison.

I think my statement still stands…

– Last Updated: Feb-24-09 7:01 PM EST –

...saying there are not 'crazies' in the 'bush' is burying your head in the sand, I don't care what your personal experiences are or not.

It is very important for any gun owner to become highly educated on the laws of where they are at the moment and the rights given them in that area. At least as important is to become edcuated in various potential tactical situations you might be in and the behavior of the 'critters' you are dealing with so that you can make quick and wise decision that will follow with as little regret for all parties as possible.

thanks for the website on handgun laws. I knew a few of the states around me but wasn’t sure of others on concealed to carry laws…

Gotta move to Florida…
We can shoot anyone anywhere, if we feel our life is in danger… Gotta kill them though so they don’t sue ya.

There are lots of crazies in the woods
Every year there are plenty of murders in national and stat parks and forests.

The type of folks you can run into in the backcountry is why wildlife enforcement officers have some of the most dangerous jobs in law enforcement. Your out alone, away from help, and you have poachers, meth labs, misanthropic looneys in existential despair who just might take stumbling across you in a ‘bad’ way (a la unibomber), drunk psychos like those guys they caught up at BWCA shooting at campsites, etc.

Probably you will never save yourself a firearm, just like I will probably never be saved with a seatbelt. But for people so inclined and properly trained, I think it’s a perfectly legitimate insurance policy that shouldn’t be lambasted as ‘paranoid’ by those of a different perspective.

If you aren’t familiar and
very experienced with firearms, forget about them. If you are concerned about bear encounters, educate yourself about how to avoid such encounters and arm yourself with Counter Assult Bear Spray. It will deal with any bears or “crazies” you are likely to encounter.