Yeah…that explains what I’ve
– Last Updated: Sep-11-08 10:16 PM EST –
been thinking regarding you... can't even perform basic skill #1.....nuff said.
handling characteristics
No one mentioned how easy or hard it is to avoid broaches, or to maneuver a bit on the wave. I understand it is not a surf boat.
Also, no one mentioned tide rips.
I can have some fun in surf in my CD Solstice GTS, if it is not bigger than about 3 ft. Also, the GTS is very easy to power through moderate tide rips, again as long as they are not too big. I am contemplating the Q700 and don’t want to suffer in these conditions. Or in choppy but not too big open ocean swells.
Then it’s called a Sand Roll jack.
If you learn how to brace … you should not have to even worry about that.
Avoiding broaches …
– Last Updated: Sep-12-08 2:02 AM EST –
Probably not a real big function of the boat. More a function of your technique. At a given critical point any long boat is going to broach in bigger waves. It has a lot to do with the length of the boat and the speed of the wave and the angle that you are surfing on the wave.
Any boat with similar rocker and hull shape will peform the same. If it has harder chines you might be able to hold an edge on the wave a bit longer, but no seakayak really has rails to surf with.
Surfing that 18'boat should be like surfing a missle. You can get on and off of waves before they ever break... once the wave breaks though you are going to broach sooner or later, so turn it into a side surf and then fall into the wave, and come back up on a sculling brace.
If you want to play in tide races you probably want a boat with more rocker.
OK Salty tell me I am full of crap.
Depends on paddler
But since most here prefer to equate gear to abilities - I’d say the key difference in the QCC vs some other sea kayaks is in the LWL. The 700s longer waterline has pluses and minuses (it’s hull shape and volume distribution is all positive stuff IMO).
The longer waterline length means it may need to be paddled a bit differently in short close chop than a kayak with a much shorter LWL (conditions like 2’-3’ mixed steep slop in 20-25 knot wind in a shallow bay or sound with limited fetch - which is the only stuff I tend to curse consistently). Need to use it’s speed to both avoid broaches, and to get out of the troughs if you do get spun. Trying to horse it around sit 'n spin style in these conditions can be an effort in futility and can get you dangerously tired pretty quickly. It maneuvers best in this stuff when moving, not sitting/pinned - and you I’ve had to remind myself of this a couple times.
If in this sort of slop is on top of some swells on the ocean, things actually get easier and more fun as you can work with the waves more.
All this is not QCC 700 stuff, just long waterline kayak stuff. 700 will get you through anything you can handle if you let it/work with it - and do so faster than most.
If I paddled a lot in “This is the Sea” type play spots, staying in a small area and working eddies and standing waves - or if surfing beach breaks regularly - I’d use something else. For just about anything else, the QCC rocks and does most things well. Really hard to beat on the smile meter running down wind waves and swells.
Shorter LWL hulls, particularly the pinched end designs, may feel more forgiving/easier in textured stuff for many - but this dampening effect comes at a price too.
Rocker is adequate - the LWLs the issue
Yup, I am a newbie
I also launch at boat ramps, cross channels, don’t wear a PFD when I don’t deem it necessary, am not an expert on every type of paddle or kayak ever built, am not friendly with all the high end boat builders, am not a captain of a tug boat, and I don’t even want to belong to the “experts club” as you seem to.
But I was doing a roll in my old WW boat, probably before you were born. - I just am not interested in rolling.
“basic skill” to me is getting out and paddling.
I knew a long time ago what you thought of me.
Your attitude with any one who differs from
your “expert opinions” and rules is very obvious.
I don’t need to be one of the gang as you seem to need to be.
The OP asked if any had played in surf in a QCC, and I answered his question. He never asked about rolling, but naturally you have to get a dig in.
I am curious why did you delete your post on the paddler who stopped in front of you ? Some one posted something that you didn’t like ?
cheers,
JackL
Come on Salty…kind of harsh eh?
I mean I would rather paddle with someone who has had a lifetime of boating experience and knows how to avoid capsizing than some who has a roll and no judgment.
I know very few sea kayakers that that have a solid roll. Many have been paddling for well over twenty years.
A few I know claimed to have never capsized. 
My guess is Jack would leave you in his wake in short time.
pinched ends
“Shorter LWL hulls, particularly the pinched end designs, may feel more forgiving/easier in textured stuff for many - but this dampening effect comes at a price too.”
Greyak, can you elaborate on this point. My CD GTS is a pinched end shorter LWL hull and is very comfortable and forgiving in choppy water. The Q700 has fuller ends and longer LWL, so other than speed how will the Q700 handle differently?
Did you see this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqIvyM9U0pk&eurl=http://keithwikle.com/
Awesome surf ski race!!!
Patrick
Thank you Patrick. That was exactly what I meant. The 700’s ability to ride and link waves is on the heel’s of surf skis, awesome. I was talking about the excitement of that “edge” and the fun involved. I used to race a Prindle 19. My favorite point was beam reaching; both on traps at the back of the boat leaning rearward and out as much as possible, windward hull out of the water, lee bow at the verge of burying, max speed. I have pitchpoled several times (not fun). But getting to the edge was fun and very exciting. Same with picking up waves; rush down the face and run into the next, hit the gas and fall into the next wave. The fun continues and it’s great fun!
I wasn’t saying other boats didn’t or wouldn’t do it. That other boats weren’t fun in the waves. That the 700 is a boat for everybody. I was just saying the 700 did it very well! I think it is a great boat…for me!
Franklin
Last night I surfed in some really big
…waves in my QCC700. Some were 15 feet tall.
and then I woke up. It was time to go to work.
Paddlin’ on
G_K
I wish
I could surf in my sleep…
Ah well, a few more things to learn
When falling asleep…Brain imprint
Any of the rest of you after sitting and catching waves for several hours when your brain starts to go to sleep you see the swells rise up and fill like you are moving with them …strange
why aren’t you interesed in rolling?
I am being serious, what is the reason?
Sorry, I typically agree w you
– Last Updated: Sep-13-08 6:14 PM EST –
but then you actually surf, roll, and have some authenticity. In the time it takes these guys to advocate for non-rolling etc, they could have learned, and you know that.
You also know that touring boats are rather limited in surf relative to surf specific craft. But hey, whatever turns folk on.. Looks ans sounds like they are having fun. And I have always respected QCC designs and their business model. I will never understand willfull desire NOT to learn a basic skill that can only enhance safety and fun. For general mellow touring sure, probably can spend a lifetime w/o rolling. Surf?? Well, you know a roll is essential, and that's all I tried to suggest. Why not roll? I stand by that. And I'm sure these old guys would leave me in their wake :):)
You wanna be in the surf with a bunch of non-rollers in touring yaks?
This directed at Seadart who I have , as far as I can recall, have agreed with?
Your a jackass!
and I’ll stand by that. Nobody here advocated anything.
What is up with you anyways?
Personal friend no doubt?
being on a first name basis and all?
All I hear is "Heeeeeee-Haaawwwwwwww!’
To some yep
This shit with Jack and I goes back to him telling me I was negligent for telling folk they could use a down bag in SE Alaska if careful, or that simple padded bars were all that’s required for hauling most sea kayaks. I went against his beliefs therefore was an unsafe ignorant jerk. Cool…
I have no problem with kayakers using ramps either, provided they are courteous about it.
I don’t care what people think. I share my views on an internet site and genuinely try to help where / if I can. One poster on this very thread got a new paddle as a result, another member here will be getting a new kayak as a result, another got a free 33lb. carbon prototype kayak as a result, and many have had lots of encouragement and support when inquiring about waters I’ve spent most of my adult life in. Others have borrowed boats for free when visiting the area. Most astonished that I’m not “old”. So my nice guy to asshole ratio here I think is just fine with me.
This got ugly when I asked “Why not just roll?” I guess that’s taboo for some non-rollers. Then there’s the predictable speeches about years of paddling and not needing it blah blah. Yeah, it’s gotta be safer and smarter to swin along side a flooded 17 + ft. kayak than perform a simple skill and come back up.
Thank you for setting this jackass straight!
For anyone on the fence about learning to roll, go for it! It’s NOT hard, and a good instructor will have you rolling very quickly. You will enjoy kayaking more “I” believe.
??? Whoa I thought I was on your side
on that one.