yes!
The qcc 500 is the quintessential big man’s boat and gear hauler. However it is not the old person inflexible man’s boat.
Ryan L.
Just curious, but
– Last Updated: Aug-08-11 8:09 AM EST –
what dress pants size do you two wear that you can get into a QCC 500?
I may have to take another 'crack' at one, but for the life of me I can't figure out how you can carry that weight at that height and get into one unless you are built like Lon Chaney playing Quasimodo, i.e. medium below the waist and massive above.
Morphology plays a more significant role here than simply height/weight considerations.
size
I wear a 36 waist 32 inseam 46 jacket. I’m not saying that it isn’t tight getting in but from the shore, the one leg in ass down, then pull your other knee in with your hands method works. On the water, if you capsized, which it don’t know how you would, I can’t roll it, but a reentry from the back deck is tricky but very possible.
Ryan L.
OK, that helps a lot
– Last Updated: Aug-08-11 10:01 AM EST –
and does underscore the differences in morphology. A 10" drop is pretty significant. American suit sizes are typically a 6" drop and only 8 (I think) for 'athletic' sizes.
I found this reference to what is considered "average" (i.e., medium) in the clothing industry:
The fashion industry assumes the average man is a traditional 40 regular, which means 40-inch chest, 34-inch waist, and 40-inch hip, with a 15.5-inch collar. In the real world, men ages 36 to 45 actually average:
White: 44-38-42
Black: 43-37-42
Hispanic: 44-38-42
Asian: 42-37-41
If you wear a size 48 or 50 long or even a 46 stout, which is getting into big guy sizes, a 16x30 cockpit is going to be a difficult fit with standard morphology any way you cut it. If it is snug for a 36" waist (I haven't been that since I was in college and was 6'3", 160# and wore size 36x34) it it going to be quite difficult for anyone much over the 38-40" average man waist to find comfortable. If by "large" the kayak manufacturer is referencing something over average, then I see their point, although it is still a bit of a misdescription if you are saying they are designed for "larger" paddlers, since the average size in the primary age demographic is already more of a large.
Perhaps we need something more akin to clothes sizing rather than just height and weight to describe kayak fit!
Nah.
Well, at least ‘nah’ for me.
Far from being the ‘old, inflexible person’ mentioned previously, I’m in my 40s, and have above average flexibility. I work at it.
And I still wouldn’t want to deal with a cockpit that small (30"x16").
Kinda makes me wonder what QCC were thinking, especially with their website explicitly saying: “Paddler Weight: 165 - 300 lbs.”
Do the boats come with a bucket o’ chicken grease, so you can get in? Especially those 300-pounders. =D
Waist vs. cockpit
When I started out paddling my 500, I wore size 46 waist. I just recently got down to size 40. I have rather long legs for my height, I believe and size 13 feet. Getting in the boat has never been a big issue, but getting out quickly, as say on a surf landing when you want to beat the next wave, it gets tricky! I can tell you I’m rather know for ungraceful exits! Wet exits, though, have never been a problem. My boat has no thigh braces, so I have a bit more movement in that regard. I’m gonna assume my hat size is of no relevance!
“average” size
– Last Updated: Aug-09-11 4:18 PM EST –
Regarding relative size: Wikipedia gives the average height for American males as 5'9.5" and weight as 190.9 pounds. It stands to reason that a large (male) paddler would be notably bigger ;-)
How cockpit width is measured matters.
Some measure from the outer edge of the cockpit coaming and some measure from the inner edge.
This results in difficulty in comparing cockpit sizes listed on websites or in discussions.
As an example:
My Perception Eclipse 17 Sea Lion and Perception Shadow 16.5 have exactly the same dimensions when I measure them side by side, but I’ve seen measurements for them on websites and in discussions that say they’re different in width and length - they’re not.
The Eclipse Sea Lion is definitely roomier and looser in the cockpit than the Shadow 16.5 is, but it’s because of what goes on below the coaming/rim, rather than the width and length of the the opening.
I’d prefer 33" Cockpit
The 500 states people in the 200lbs range and paddles efficiently loaded 300-325lbs. I would tend to agree about the cockpit size. I would prefer a newer cockpit design. A boxy keyhole cockpit 33" long with a deck height of 13.5" and a lower recessed back coaming. I am 6’4", 215lbs, and 11eee. I have a 500 and 700. I have briefly paddled a 400. The 500 cockpit is big. I can get in butt first in the 500 and pull out my legs. The 700 is a tight fit. I have to slide in on the back deck. I bend my knees a little in the paddling position. The 700 seems to inhibit my torso rotation because of the low deck and slightly bent knees… I do fit into both boats. I can reenter and roll both boats.
JimZ
Check that spec again
Above the 500X it says “165-300 lbs.” If the paddler weighs 300 lbs, that leaves only 25 lbs for gear.
So far no 300-pounders have come forward to say they can fit in this cockpit. I’m willing to bet money that it’s impossible. We’ve heard from people who weigh 205 and 225. A person with a 36" waist said it’s “tight getting in.” A 300-pounder would have a waist 10 to 20 inches larger than that. Another person says its tricky getting out, which could cause some serious problems in rocky surf.
I hope QCC is reading this because I think they’re missing a lot of potential customers with their small cockpits, or lack of variety in their cockpits to fit different needs. They seem to be claiming that one size fits all (165-300 lbs), which is impossible.
you are really missing the point.
The waist is irrelevant to the cockpit width. The seat on any high end boat is not going to be bigger than 17 inches. So if your too wide for the cockpit then you wouldnt fit the seat. The only issue with the cockpit size is the length. You have to be able to bend your knee tight to get your other foot in. It is tight, but so is any other good boat. Even if the opening was three inches bigger, I would still have to use my hand to bend my knee in. For some reason you are against the idea of a tight cockpit. But I’m a huge fan. And if your not, you can return the boat.
I feel the reason the cockpit is small is because with the high front deck a bigger cockpit would mean your knees would have a hard time making good contact. You are obsessing over the cockpit hole and not realizing that the deck is tall so it is easier to get in than some other big guy boats with 12inch decks. I have concluded you are jealous.
Ryan L.
Would love to see a video
– Last Updated: Aug-13-11 6:37 AM EST –
of a 300-lb person getting into and out of a QCC. That would settle it.
Or you could read your own review of the 500: "Just wish the cockpit was maybe two inches longer."
Just be sure to watch it closely…
… 'cuz if the 300 lb guy in the vid is all shiny-looking, that means they greased 'im up! =D
yeah i know
I have admitted that before, but I also wish my truck was two inches taller. I wish I made more money for doing less work.
I also wish the 500 was an inch narrower, but it doesn’t mean it is dishonest. Plus I really just wish the cockpit was a couple inches bigger so I could move the seat forward an inch and still have room.
Ryan L.
“Waist irrelevant to cockpit width”?
Come now, let’s have some common sense. If you weigh 300 lbs believe me, you’re going to scrutinize the width of your cockpit opening.
As for the cockpit length, bending the knee is only one issue. The other is that a 300-lb person is already a lot closer to the front of the cockpit due to body size, making getting the foot in and out even more difficult.
Don’t underestimate the safety issue. It can be a lot harder to get out of than into a kayak. The difficulty of getting out is compounded by a tight fit. And don’t forget that people who weigh 300 lbs aren’t all that agile.
Cockpit Dimensions and So Much More
Ok you found 1 out of 3 places specifying the paddler weight range to 300lbs. I can easily see a 38" waist 6’8" 300lbs athletic person fitting in the boat. I do not see a 300lbs couch potato fitting in the cockpit. Did we forget to talk to Steve about your paddling requirements? You do have 30 days to return it. You could squeeze a little more room out by removing the hip braces. More important is your hip size. I have a 36’ waist and have 3/4" hip pads on both sides. Would I like to see QCC modernize their cockpit? Yesss! The dimensions are a general starting point at fitting a kayak.
JimZ
They need more VARIETY in their line-up
It’s very strange that a manufacturer would choose just one cockpit dimension (I am only talking about the opening, not the depth) and apply it to every model. I understand that they’re a small company and can’t please everyone, but it seems like they’re unnecessarily limiting their clientele. They have a good product otherwise.
Well I sure as hell hope Valley NEVER
advertised the Skerray XL for larger paddlers as that cockpit measures 27 3/4in.X 16 3/4in. Quite a bit smaller than the Qcc’s.
So let me get this right? I can bitch about Qcc 500’s cockpit size and hope the factory gives an option which I am sure would add costs. Or I can listen to an intelligent fiberglass guy like Onno and get it stretched out for a custom fit? MMMMMMMMM what to do?
This is like bitching about 60cm. or larger road bicycles coming from the factory with one of those skinny racing saddles when it is obviously a large persons frame! What, no tractor seat? Those bastards!
QCC fanboi or QCC shill?
Calm down, Elroy. You’re starting to sound like either a fanboi or a shill.
Just because not everyone loves QCC’s design decision here, isn’t a reason to blow a gasket. It’s like you take the criticism personally.
Maybe it lowers production costs?