At least not to my way of looking at it based on their development. It's a re-badged Swift!!! *L*
As oft happens here, were talking apples/oranges. You about the earlier more rec oriented designs, me the relatively more recent and more performance oriented sea kayak designs.
300/400/500 may indeed have little rocker (of these I've only paddled the 500 - and can't recall rocker...). Would make sense actually given their overall sizes and design intents.
So, takeaway here is: QCCs are not all alike. Another thing that seems to get lost in the Pnet myths...
I never said they have NO rocker, I said they don’t have MUCH rocker.
One of the problems here is that, while QCC designs are relatively simple, with short, vertical stems, and rocker distributed fairly evenly along the hull, other hulls like Necky have shorter waterlines, relative to their total length. And, the longer Neckys appear to be rockered as much or more along their bottom segments as QCC. So for any stated total length, Necky kayaks are likely to spin (ponderously) more easily than QCC kayaks. That’s before you even consider how the boats respond to lean.
Because of these differences in design, I’m sure it can be misleading to compare a QCC and a Necky based just on their total lengths. Maybe one should compare QCCs with Neckys that are a foot longer. And then there is the issue of what weight they should be expected to carry. A QCC 700 with nothing but me aboard (225#) would be rather underloaded, and a handling evaluation at that load might not mean much.
I have very, very little personal experience with touring kayaks. I can only apply my general knowledge of principles of boat design. QCC designs appear to be on the low side regarding rocker. Your rocker may vary.
What kind of speed? For low drag up to 4.5 knots on flat water and very good speed in conditions combined with lots of rocker little bests a Nordkapp LV.
QCC There’s more than one model of QCC, friend has a high volume 400 that’s fast for it’s size and also quite stable at rest, would make a nice photography platform and still have above average performance.
Variety I suppose it’s nice to have variety too. There’s several boats I would love to have and all of them different in some way. The QCC just calls to me.
I drank the Q700X Koolaid My new Q700X arrived a few days ago. I wanted a fast light weight stable gear hauler that is nimble for 18 foot and handles textured water well. I was very concerned being 6’4" 215lbs size 12 feet, and 36" waist. I have a high CG. I had it shipped without the seat installed. I was amazed at the amount of rocker the Q700X had. Pictures do not do the Q700X justice. I flipped the seat pad back for maximum stability on a bare seat pan. I took my new baby out for a test paddle on flat water. I left my GPS at home. I wanted to focus on the performance of the Q700X. I was amazed at the lean turns and nimbleness of the Q700X. I did not even need the rudder. The secondary stability firmed up exceptionally when I put the rail in the water. I was able to control the rudder with my size 12 feet although I was approaching the limit. The Q700X turned nicely under the rudder control. The Q700X was very sensitive to leaning for directional control in a good way. The Q700X I paddled a few years ago was not like my new boat. A little padding is needed for a snug fit. I wish the cockpit was a tad longer for an easier entry. Overall I was delighted and very pleased with my initial paddle and fit. I cannot wait to try the Q700X on textured water… I have paddled and own a number of boats such as CD, P&H, Impex, Wilderness Systems, Eddyline, Prijon, Necky, Perception, and Old Town. I do like customer service. Oh I got the electric trolling motor option for faster paddling with less effort.
....... the way to go IMO. Get rid of that stock pad/back combo thing entirely (more comfortable and better for rotation/technique/long term comfort without it). Put in a low narrow backband - or chunk of shaped foam.
Stock bare pan has served well for 6-7 years now (?), but I may swap seat for more of a race seat so I can ditch the band entirely (still looking - may make something).
Rocker you say? Yeah, they're quite different in person than online... ;)
I thought you’d like it! Congrats! How is the fit for your upper legs? If that’s good, then I think you are in luck with the 700x
When I test-paddled one briefly I liked it very much. If I could fit in it, I would have bought it. The QCC feels light and maneuverable on the water to me. Having rocker also makes it more stable as your butt is lower in the water.
Get it onto some swell to surf it downwind and I think you will like it even more.
I am thinking of ordering one as well, can you tell me if I need the rudder with this boat? I was even thinking of ordering it with both a rudder and skeg. My preference is for the skeg only, but I don’t want to make a mistake I have to live with. I will not be racing (I think). I am 6’3" 245 with 13 feet. If the boat is too much work in quartering conditions even with the skeg, then I want to get the rudder. I am also concerned about resale without the rudder. Any thoughts out there? Thanks, Bill
Size 13 feet Not sure about rudder vs. skeg on this particular boat.
But make sure your size 13 feet can fit. Barefoot you should be OK I think, but I’m size 15 and even with the lightest-weight paddling shoes I have I did not fit - deck too low (toes stick up to it), rudder pedals too low - fall below where they need to be.
The Smart Track rudder is nice - small but effective. You can of course always not use it or remove it but right now I think it’s a “free” option during the sale. I think the kayak needs something to go straight and either a skeg or a rudder would be a benefit on a longer trip even if you do not race…
Rudder decision I’ve been happy with skeg - and don’t even use that much (but I also have the 2nd gen 700 with cockpit 3" aft of current - so it’s automatically a little skeggier - though my seat move now makes it trim like current model).
However, 700 has a long waterline and requires a bit different handling in short/steep wind waves (2-3’ steep and close period [that being the real issue - longer period waves not same problem] like 20-25+ knot stuff in exposed areas with a couple miles or more fetch).
Key thing being that if you do get turned and caught sideways in the trough - you’ll need to rebuild forward speed to turn out of it and get back on course. Long moving turn out vs. spinning it on place. Trying to horse it around in place can be a huge chore otherwise (unless you’ve got swell to lift you out of trough and can spin on crest - the easy). Similarly, the easiest way to avoid broaching is to keep speed up.
Of course this stuff is not Q700 specific and applies to MANY sea kayaks. I’m also talking about a pretty specific set of conditions - not the 700’s overall handing. The kayak is remarkably maneuverable for its waterline length otherwise. I’ve only had maybe 3 occasions like that where it was work and a rudder would have been very welcome (maybe I’ve just learned to avoid/watch weather?). Also been in quite similar conditions where it was a blast playing in the wind waves.
In the potentially problematic conditions, the skeg will only exacerbate any issues by further limiting maneuverability (again, true with other kayaks), where a rudder would help. Skeg is of course still handy running down/cross wind - just remember to get it up if you get hung up and need to turn/get back on course - then re-deploy as needed. Fast and accurate skeg deployment is what motivated me to modify the skeg control (cord/cleat sort of sucks).
Definitely NOT a rudder dependent type design at all, so please don’t read it that way. Every kayak has a different mix - and long LWL has some inevitable trade-offs (very often addressed with a rudder). Still, I may add a rudder - but mostly because I miss too many good free rides with just the skeg. You get on 'em easy, but staying there and milking it is another matter. Corrective strokes don’t cut if they rob speed and the wave outruns you.
If buying new, I’d probably get the rudder - but I’d swap it out ASAP Patrick/ONNO type footboard with pedals, and probably his rudder too. Rudders are fine (well designed ones anyway), it’s the footpegs that suck! With footboard setup you get best of both worlds. Comfort and solid bracing surface like no rudder/skeg - AND a rudder (when you want it) fro runs and such.
Hi JimZ
I love my QCC 700 too. Mine is getting a little long in the tooth but it is awesome! It does everything great that you talked about and wait til you get it in the bumps! It rides waves about as good as my ski! It is going to make you smile. It can be a handful under the right conditions but if you'll pick up the speed, it will help greatly.
I tore out my seat and tried others. I found Patrick at ONNO Paddles who makes the best seat I've ever sat in. The seat sits on the hull (can't get any lower), it is VERY comfortable and it will really tie you into the boat! Awesome. You won't need to add padding. It is easy to put in, lightweight and not expensive.
Every year I go to the Charleston Kayak Festival looking for a better boat. This is my fifth/sixth year? Can't remember, I'm getting old BUT I have always come home thinking I already owned the best all around boat made.
I kayak camp. The 700 will carry the world...very big.
Congrats and enjoy your new boat! Mine is five plus years old and I am still in love.
Best regards
Franklin
Ps. When I put Patrick's seat in the boat, I moved it forward three or four inches. It makes getting into the boat a little harder but trims the boat out a lot a exercise pace.
The boat was designed with the cockpit and seat about three or four inches further forward than it is now. It was designed as a skeg boat but weather cocked badly with that set up. I think they then tried moving it back about seven inches and finally settled for the current. BUT with the rudder on the boat, move the seat forward. the boat squats pretty bad at speed if you don't.
If you are not too tall, you will be delighted that you moved the seat.
Good luck!
Hi moparharn Get the rudder. It will make a world of difference. When I had QCC build my 700, I also asked them to move the forward bulkhead back and raise the rudder up, got the rudder housing out of the water.
Kocho, thank you. I should be ok as I am used to foot room issues with my SOF’s and Cetus. I use the NRS Rodeo sock in winter and Five Fingers in the other months. I am going to take a load of Sh&t from my Greenland buds if I opt for the rudder. It sounds as though the boat is best with it. QCC says they sell 10 to 1 rudders over skegs, which tells me that if I ever want to sell it (that’s a laugh, I would sell my mother for good deal)I will want to get the rudder. We shall see. Thanks. Bill
Greyak and Franklin, thank you. I am really turned off by the rudder. I don’t want a mechanical failure to cause me grief (or worse). I also prefer to build my bulkheads up with minicell to my feet and use it as my brace point. The boat is such a radical departure from what I typically think of that going with a rudder is just another part of this “big” change. It is looking like the rudder. Bill
I ordered it today. Carbon Kevlar, with rudder and thigh braces. Artic white deck,marlin blue trim, artic white hull. Hope I got this right. With Steve’s return policy, what do I have to loose?
7000 miles later and three or four rudder repairs along with a half dozen holes repaired, mine keeps on ticking and responds to all my wishes perfectly.
I think go right,or left and it automatically goes that way.
It anticipates my leans and does them for me.
We are one and even though it is time for a new one I don’t think I can part with this sorry looking beat up old timer.
