Amen to that Trilobite.
your explorer and your qcc 700
trilobite,
Very interesting to me that you have both the Explorer and the QCC 700. I had been debating whether, for my next boat, to go Brittish style (skeg) or long and fast (rudder), and now lean toward the latter.
If you wanted to travel a straight line through tide rips or windy choppy conditions, over a distance long enough that top speed was not the issue, would you choose your Explorer or QCC?
Alas
I sold my Explorer after it hung on the hooks subsequent to buying the QCC. I regret selling it at times-wonderful roller, and a benign and comfortable friend that scoffed at poor conditions. I gravitated toward the racing end of the sport, after years spent racing bicycles, and the QCC is a very capable rougher water boat in addition to being able to easily run away and hide from the Explorer. I have a garage full of bikes also, but the bottom line is you use the one/s you like the most. Since my limited time was occupied in paddling far and fast, the QCC fit the bill better, as in the Explorer, I’d easily ‘hit the wall.’ To answer your question, if the conditions were really bad, clapotis or heavy confused seas, or in the queried heavy tidal rip, I’d feel more confident in the Explorer, although the QCC is very fast and secure into the headwind and chop. I’d also be out of said conditions much more quickly in the QCC, as it’s significantly faster overall. If you want to play in bad conditions, select the Explorer; if you wanted to blast through it, go QCC.
Epic 18 used to circumnavigate Ireland
See link:
http://www.epickayaks.com/news/details.aspx?nid=685&id=1382&tImg=1073
Bravo!
Thanks for the link. I had heard of this voyage, but not read about it until now.
The boats proven suitable for major paddling expands everytime someone chooses a boat that has not previously been so used.
This moves Epic from the catagory of theoretically capable to proven.
Someday, maybe, QCC boats will move from theoretically capable to proven.
I would be delighted to
paddle my QCC around Ireland or any other place.
Interested in sponsoring me???
cheers,
jackL
Glad to see,
that as expected the newer design plumb bow kayaks are just as expedition capable as the older design brit boats, plus the added benefit of getting there quicker.
HEX
Yeah, sponsor a team!
QCC has more rocker and stouter construction. Also designed with expedition load in mind. Nothing to prevent same sort of use, and might even be better.
It really comes down to the paddlers (and sponsors!!!)
expedition capable
has way more to do with the paddler than the boat. any sea kayak of any style is ‘expedition capable’. any one from any company, glassed bulkheads or no, fast or slow, wide or narrow. some boats may provide greater margins for error or have recovery and rescue enhanced designs, but that is neither here nor there.
I agree completely.
– Last Updated: Nov-22-05 2:50 PM EST –
I have seen paddlers in top of the line kayaks that don't belong in them and I have paddled with folks that cannot afford a top of the line kayak that are more competent than many others.
Cheers,
JackL
"but that is neither here nor there"
While it is true that the paddler is the most signifcant aspect of being expedition capable, the boat does play an important role.
The margins for error (forgiving qualities) of a boat are particularly important for extended outings. A major reason many expert paddlers switched from Nordkapps to Explorers for expeditions is just that quality.
Tom Bergh summarized his decision to move from a Nordkapp to an Explorer as “I don’t have to think about the boat.”
It is safer the less you have to think about the boat when in conditions and/or fatiqued.
A well mannered boat is a safer boat.
How did you deduce the…
“get there quicker” part as there is no timing information listed on the Epic bulletin?
Augustus Dogmatycus
MMV
All kayak manufacturers have issues…
and Epic has resolved the link below successfully by replacing the boat, but, make sure any boat you buy you go over it well. Bring a flashlight and inspect those seams and bulkheads, skeg and rudder thru hull assemblies. Or else you may find yourself swimming to shore.
Augustus Dogmatycus
MMV
I can see that,
– Last Updated: Nov-22-05 3:04 PM EST –
my post had it's intended effect,, to get the Brit boat group all huffy and puffy. We've already heard about "any boat can be expedition capable", didn't Tom Hanks go on an expedition with some bamboo poles lashed together with twine in the movie Cast Away? I've heard about SOT, SINK, SOF, now BWT (Bamboo With Twine). Now we hear from Dog (hmm, is this a new term for a slow kayak?) about the article not mentioning the earlier arrival due to paddling the Epic. Sensitive bunch, aren't we? lol
HEX
The question was…
“How did you deduce the “get there quicker” part as there is no timing information listed on the Epic bulletin?”
There is no emotion, no huffy puffy, no shortman-small peepee complex so evident in your response, just a simple question to which I await an answer still. It’s all bits and bytes in the end.
Augustus Dogmatycus
MMV
bits and bytes for you,
– Last Updated: Nov-22-05 3:57 PM EST –
or in the case of a Dog,, is it Bites with an "i". If you read the post it states that the plumb bow boats are expedition capable with the added benefit of getting there quicker. My post does not state that the story says that. You seemed to have implied that. I think there has been enough commentary of this board and others to the effect that tha QCC's and Epics are indeed faster boats than the more traditional Brit designed boats,,, therefore the comment of expedition capable with more speed. If you read the second post, it states that the original post was to get the Brit boat folks going, as is often the case on P-net between the "cult" paddlers and traditionalists. This is the answer that you await. Could it be a slight case of the Rabies? BTW,, thanks for the physical discription,, wasn't needed, it's quite evident by the profile and commentary.
HEX
It was a simple question,
“how”.
Your submitted link offered little to confirm that plumb bows are faster than boats with uplifted bows, commonly but erroneously tagged as brit boats. If you look at Greyak’s posts he at least compared a couple of them, a bit of a mismatch to be sure, but there was a comparison. And by the way, the one plumb bow I did own WAS faster than any of the uplifted bows I have now. Though, to appear as if I know what I’m doing, I usually compare them side-by-side, rather than expect the reader to bear in mind all the collected wisdom of the net. That boat I had suffered from 3 things: It caught alot of kelp; AND it suffered from QC and design issues. I sent it back to the reformatory as it was hopeless. Fast, but hopeless. Hex, when you get into high school, beware of flashing your wit too much to the upperclassmen. They’ll make a punk of you by the end of the first period.
Augustus Dogmatycus
MMV
Teaching an old “Dog” new tricks
– Last Updated: Nov-22-05 4:28 PM EST –
There is only one way to really explain any of the handling and efficiency benefits of an EPIC or QCC (and I'm not saying they handle the same - there are key differences) to the dogmatic and rabidly Brit-centric old school paddlers:
Get them to demo in conditions (an EPIC 18 or QCC 700 {not a 16, or 500, or 400 as they are WAY different] - and paddle long enough to understand and begin to enjoy the benefits.
Not just a quickie where they may be put off by the lack of the speed robbing training wheels of fine ends and mid boat bulges they are used to. ;)
Hey Dog, all cute Roman references aside, where do you really paddle - and what?
Don't get me wrong - I am also a Brit boat fan (and own GP, Euro, and Wing paddles). I've taken many outfitting cues from the Brit camp - and have a skegged QCC. Have paddled several Brit boats, like several of them (but none I'd swap the Q for), and own a Pintail (well, more like look after it - but I do paddle it a little, which is about as far as I'd care to as slow as it is).
PS - I suppose that wing paddle he used to round Ireland isn't expedition worthy either... :)
Hey Greyak,
“Hey Dog, all cute Roman references aside, where do you really paddle - and what?
Don’t get me wrong - I am also a Brit boat fan (and own GP, Euro, and Wing paddles). I’ve taken many outfitting cues from the Brit camp - and have a skegged QCC. Have paddled several Brit boats, like several of them (but none I’d swap the Q for), and own a Pintail (well, more like look after it - but I do paddle it a little, which is about as far as I’d care to as slow as it is).
PS - I suppose that wing paddle he used to round Ireland isn’t expedition worthy either… :)”
I primarily paddle the Strait of Juan De Fuca, West Coast until it gets too hairy, northern Islands including the San Juans. Every year we go up to BC, Alaska, Oregon, California, someplace a bit different. We surf all year long and do WW when it’s running in between the “too low” and “will kill you” gage. I’m as rabid of my brit boats as I am my Canadian and American ones. The fleet is split evenly on sea boats between the brits and Canadians, and only the WW boats are American. Most of my time is spent in either a Jubilee or an Explorer.
I was not interested in hijacking the thread, just asked a simple question, “how.” I even bit my toungue when you had the audacity to compare a Pintail to a 700, didn’t I? ; ) I follow these threads because I’m interested in fast boats and wing paddles and will likely acquire a set. Up until Valley came out with the Rapier I thought I’d be looking at a 700/Epic/Glider, or some such, but might even just build a 20’ Aleutian, instead. Still not sure. It’s a big world out there, lots of great ideas and places to go, cool new things to use, just some explanation required.
Augustus Dogmatycus
MMV (Mileage May Vary)