Quick (biased) Advice
Go paddle a WS Tempest 165 and a Tsunami back to back. If you prefer the Tsunami you might need to do the beginner boat thing. If you think you can quickly get used to the T165, you can skip the beginner boat thing.
Get the boat in plastic and beat hell out of it.
Y’all don’t hit me, now! I said it was a BIASED opinion.
Good enough
– Last Updated: Feb-18-08 2:50 PM EST –
"You will always find a boat that you like better than the one you have. So when do you quit?"
There are a lot of boats I've enjoyed demoing. Almost all of them have at least one feature or characteristic I like better than my current boat. But so far, nothing else has been better overall for what I do than the boat I have.
Some of the folks who keep changing boats just like changing boats -- it's not a quest for the "best". I know folks who are the same way about motorcycles -- get one , ride it for a while, and then trade it for something else. They think it's more fun to keep changing flavors even if they occasionally get one they don't like. If you always buy used there's not much cost involved.
There are lots of cars I like(or would like!) to drive, but not many that I'd actually like to own.
Seda Swift/QCC 500
– Last Updated: Feb-18-08 2:56 PM EST –
There's a big difference in depth/windage/cockpit fit. The 500 is a BIG boat in terms of volume. You don't want an expedition-volume boat for day paddling. A high foredeck just gets in the way if you don't need the space.
Thanks for the clarification on your search & experience. It sounds like you're at the stage a lot of us go through -- too much theory and not enough practice. It's time to find a decent used boat and start getting some real-world data about what works best for YOU.
What were the boats you liked/didn't like?
Not
always…some of us don’t care for the way the QCC 700 handles.
I see quite a few beginners getting them because of their send back pollicy. Having the money to buy something only said …you HAD the money.
I personally (GASP) don’t want one.
R/C says he knows the local dealer??? they do mail order only as far as I knew. No dealers unless somethings changed lately
Best Wishes
Roy
Thanks all!
Roy,
Sorry for the confusion. I meant a local kayak dealer not for QCC boats. He carries Seaward, Seda and Prijon.
Like I said, I thought I wanted a Seaward Ascente but their price is more than I want to spend. I need a car rack paddle PFD etc. The Seda Swift just seems like it maybe a little more on the beginner side than what I want. The Ikkuma is probably more of what I want by way of length, witdth and performance. But I can’t get past the design. lol I just don’t like the hatches. The cleaner design is what I prefer.
Since I just read through the reviews for the 500 it seams that like you guys mentioned it may not be a good boat for everyday paddling. That still leaves the Solstice GTS on my short list. Mountain Gear has an orange one in stock! 
So all this advise and questioning is helping after all. I am norrowing down my wants and needs and finding out things such as the 500 is a really high volume yak that may not suit me… Keep the info coming. Thanks!
How we chose
– Last Updated: Feb-18-08 4:56 PM EST –
We started out with wide beamy things, briefly, and our first sea kayaks were plastic. Outlay at the time about $1200 per boat for the Squall and the DS Elaho, rather than $2700 for glass boats, and they survived the times that we accidentally dropped them getting them loaded or unloaded without harm.
We didn't get glass sea kayaks until we had a lot of seat time in the RM boats, by which time we knew the characteristics we liked and had figured out how to handle boats without dropping them.
If you must get a new boat, look at the manufacturers that can get you into a plastic sea kayak to start. Necky has all the Chathams in plastic, Wilderness Systems all the Tempests etc. You don't really have the set time to know if you want a turny or a tracking boat as a priority, so you'd probably be best off looking at an allaround boat that does everything OK if not great. Think Tempest, Chatham 17 if you fit it, that kind of boat.
If you don't get the effect of volume on the boat's performance for you, I doubt that you can make a good long term decision about high performance features. I'm not being rude or nasty here - it's just that your various times in a kayak don't seem to have solidified your understanding of how the boat's design and you as a paddler interact.
The suggestions for lessons, at a good place that'll challenge you, are ways to close that gap.
Hatches
– Last Updated: Feb-18-08 4:55 PM EST –
Not liking the "rubber" hatches made by Kajak Sport and VSK will drastically limit your choice of sea kayaks. Solid hatch covers are not necessarily drier or more secure.
But if solid hatch covers make you smile and black ones make you wince, get what you want. You're the one that'll be looking at them.
Just saw this at http://www.kayakacademy.com/
Kayak: Impex Susquehanna, standard fiberglass (with reinforcements), w/ skeg, front and rear hatches (older model with fiberglass hatches not VCP hatches, no day hatch), 2 fiberglass bulkheads, recessed deck fittings, fiberglass seams inside and out, good knee/thigh braces, ratcheting adjustable padded IR back band. 16.5' long, 22.5" wide, White deck, white hull, and black seam. Used 3 seasons; good to very good condition; $1,650.00 (New price $2,995). Call Ed @ 425>369-6025
If an ambitious beginner told me they wanted a first sea kayak, my first thought would be to look for a used plastic example(in the appropriate size)of one of the proven "all-around" models: Tempest, Capella, Avocet, Aquanaut, etc.(Eclipse, Eliza, or Storm/Squall if you like rudders) This'd get them on the water at a reasonable cost, in a boat that was safe and would encourage skill development. If money was no object, I'd look for a similar used boat in composite construction. Spending less on the boat makes it easier to buy the gear for safe cold-water paddling.
Yeah about the hatches
– Last Updated: Feb-18-08 5:01 PM EST –
Y'see, this is the kind of thing that makes it hard to suggest that you get a boat right now. Once you start doing things like rolling and handling conditions you'll find that dry beats the heck out of aesthetics in a hatch cover. And the black ones you dislike are generally drier, at least in my experience.
The design you will most care about when you are sitting in the boat in an unexpected squall (it'll eventually happen if you paddle the ocean) is how the hull design and volume work for you to be able to manage the boat. You won't be able to see the hull and you won't have the time to think about the volume, except to curse at it if you went too far in the big direction. How the hatches look will be even further from your thoughts.
Buy the boat, brother!
If you want the 700, can afford the 700, and don’t envision quitting kayaking shortly, buy the dang 700. Simple. You capsize, you get wet. Then you dry off and do it again. Big deal! Have fun!
But I hear they scratch easy
not at all
I think that’s a great suggestion, nice way of putting it.
Tippy, you get used to
Other things you might find you really dislike even after you’ve paddled it a while.
Best to demo and rent before plunking down $3000, unless you’re good at convincing yourself that expensive mistakes are good purchases just because they have custom features. All the frills in the world won’t help if you find that you just don’t like the boat’s handling.
but their customer service is unquestion
-able.
I remember because I think someone tried to question it once, and oh boy!
my own experience
– Last Updated: Feb-18-08 5:24 PM EST –
I grew up in and around water so I get the attraction you speak of. My first kayaking experience was in my parents tandem and while I liked it, I was still a little kid.
Next experience was in a recreational kayak, and I loved it so I bought one. Less than two years later, I sold it because I had grown to want more and I hated the cumbersome quality of it. So I bought a sea kayak. Then another. Both may have been a bit beyond my abilities but I'm athletic and challenges motivate me.
So hearing your story I put myself back in your shoes. I would try to rent or demo a boat like the Tempest or Aquanaut: easier to find and in the sea kayak category. Rather than sink any money into either right away. It sounds like you've done a bit of this but if there is any question, do some more. Regardless, get out on safer flatwater, and get some instruction.
If not - follow gulfcoaster's advice, I agree wholeheartedly.
They still haven’t proved their customer
service to me, but Franklin and his club friends think it’s fantastic.
You have to start before you can quit
Start renting. If it feels like a barge, don’t blame it on being plastic. I’ve demoed/rented glass boats that were more bargey than some plastic boats.
It was 3 years before I arrived at a kayak that really felt the way I liked (it’s a Tempest 165). Went through one plastic sea kayak and one S&G that I built from a kit before I got there. Used the first one a LOT, then sold it. I had a better idea what I wanted in a kayak by then.
This
– Last Updated: Feb-18-08 7:01 PM EST –
is excelent advice....If the question was worded differant, My advice would be to go the dealers around you and look at paddles first....buy the best paddle that you can afford. (not necessarially the most expensive, but it may be)
Test drive ALL the boats on your list, using the same paddle.
Test driving boats with just anything that they have won't tell you as much and, some of the things as to how a boat handles or how you enjoy it's ride, might be as much the paddle as the boat.
It doesn't matter what you decide on as your next boat....since you changing boat classifications. WHATEVER you buy, if you actually paddle, WHATEVER you buy will NOT be the last. You don't have the experiance yet, to be in that classification.
However a really good paddle will travel from boat buy to boat buy with you for years and very well could be AMONG your last PADDLES you end up buying. If later you find one that fits you better, this one becomes a spare or a lender. Hard to shelf as many boats as you are able to shelf paddles...they just take up too much room if nothing else.
if anything ...be cheap on a boat(used), don't scrimp on the paddle (when traveling, I always take my paddle to use. but not always my boat)
Best Wishes
Roy
Get the 700
My first boat was an Eddyline Falcon 18 that is 21" wide. It seemed really tippy, especially compared to the WW boats I was used to. But I quickly adapted and since I knew how to roll it was not hard. I also figured out that the boat was designed to be paddled when loaded. On a trip with a full load the boat was completely different. So I did the obvious, added ballast for paddling empty. I eventually sold it and bought a 700X. I actually tested them back and forth before I sold the Eddyline. I preferred the 700X. However the initial stability and secondary stability of both boats are pretty much the same, at least so far as I could tell. I have paddled the 500X and I don’t recommend it. It is huge and does not handle nearly as well as the 700. The 700 is a great boat and once you learn to trust the secondary stability (which is very good) you will be off and running. It does have quirks. You need to edge it more in turns than a typical British boat. And you may have to drop the skeg (if you get a skeg) just a little bit in moderate winds to make it easier to control weather cocking. I also replaced the backband, which is a p.o.s.
yep
…but I disagree about the boat.
Why even buy one?
Instead of buying one you could do what I’ve done.
I’ve made five different kayaks for my own use over the past ten years to get the size and performance I want.