?
You will have people make comments on problems they have with any particular kayak, but how many will make a post to just say they bought a perfect kayak with no problems.
I would have to think the number of perfect ones is a much larger percent than the few with problems. And the few with problems are easily fixed, or replaced by the dealer you purchased from.
Lets not blow things out of proportion.
I have had to spend a little time testing my kayak and spent $25 on 3m 5200 to make it perfect, not really a big deal.
Dennis
QC
If anyone is trying to correct these issues, I assure wildy is… Trust me…
On fiberglass bulkhead leaks.
I’ve wondered, in terms of design, why not put a fiberglass seam strip along the bulkhead edge to add strength and seal against leaks? Weight? Cost? Technical issues?
Paul S.
A positive comment.
– Last Updated: Jan-23-07 8:15 PM EST –
I know I come off hard nosed on the topic of QC. It's my general point of view, from my job experience.
One thing I want to say is that it's an absolute positive for Flatpick to come on here and help customers, and the paddling community in general. It can only endear customers and put a positive face on Confluence.
Paul S.
bulkheads
The bulkheads on the tempest do have that fiberglass strip.
agreed
I know that low production volume increases labor costs for a product but at $3000 a conglomerated business has NO business rationalizing experiments in production and design that the customer and dealer have to provide feedback on.
But it’s good for niche competitors like QCC, West Side and not so niche like Impex.
yes, but its been way too long
"That reasures me and tells me they do care and are trying to build a better product."
Sorry, relatively new here, and only considering purchasing a WS Tempest 165, but from the research I have done into these craft, the problem has been around for several years. I just don’t see where the “they do care” part comes in - obviously the problem needs to be addressed with new engineering, and perhaps new molds, and its more apparent the company is focused on spitting out these very popular boats than it is investing the time and money to fix their problems.
With all due respect to flatpick, as well as others, I just don’t see WS taking quality control very seriously.
** Flamesuit on **
DennisH spot on
Most people know when you buy a composite boat the first thing you do is grab some sandpaper and go over the boat and check for pits of resin and nasty sharp bits. Bulk heads if you think its may leak you will do the necessary
Thing either silicon or tape or glass what ever suit the occasion.
Thought ill through my two cent worth in
For 3 to 4K
We should have to finish the boat?.. Don’t think so.
I agree
we should not finish of our boats, but in reality at time we do.
Exactly!
Why do people here expect that it’s OK to have “minor” issues with leaking? You’re right, for the kind of money we are talking, the boat should be right, 100%, not “close enough”! And this includes RM boats. The hatches should be checked at the factory by pressurizing and testing for leaks with water/soap solution. I would not accept a car that leaked at the windshield, why should I expect to have to tweak my brand new kayak?! It’s insane, and it’s our collective fault for letting the manufacturers get away with it. We are too laid back as a group. Come on manufacturers, get your act together. I can’t believe you can’t devise a hatch that does not leak. Maybe you need a fresh set of ideas, hire some designers from outside the industry. Hey, there’s designers and engineers that put folks on the moon, a simple non-leaking hatch ought to be childs play!
you guys are right…
– Last Updated: Jan-24-07 12:40 PM EST –
You should not have to "finish" a $3000 boat yourself. As Steve explained earlier, WS just underwent a HUGE transition, and composites took a huge hit. For a while quality may have inadvertaly lagged, BUT that is in the past. Today's WS's boats are better than ever! You guys have been heard and changes have been made. The boats should no longer have these issues...
Quality
I have to admit I am a quality nut and think every thing should be perfect, but the fact is that isn’t so.
I love my 2000 honda civic I have over 200,000 miles on it, it is a work car and I do just the basic maintence, it has served me well with no problems, a couple months ago I had a flat tire and had to get the spare tire out for the first time, well guess what that compartment had a lot of water in it and the tire rim was very rusty. I bought the car new and had no idea there was any leaks.
Crap happens even with some of the best made items.
I do agree with the posters that no you should not have to repair or fix a new product.
Dennis
10 minutes
it takes about 10 minutes to run over ANY f/g boat and ‘finish’ it.
I look for rough spots and hit 'em with some 60 grit. then I ‘baptize’ it. take ALL hatch covers off and sink it. rinse it out real good of all F/G dust, etc and then I’m gone.
big woop.
steve
look
inside der…it HAS a f/g seam. what do you think holds in the b/h?
even the worlds greatest f/g seam can and will leak. hense the sealant.
steve
agreed
I tend to give the niche guys more slack but WS is not one of them. It seems like they’ve been in existence a long time to be finding their way through issues like these.
10 minutes too many
– Last Updated: Jan-24-07 4:09 PM EST –
at 3k or more a pop. Especially leaky hatches.
It will be a big woop when an otherwise good product gets overlooked because the guy down the street can make it better than you can.
P.S.: My billing rate is 18k per hour.
Your job
At $3000 that should be done at the factory. I reiterate, the product should be defect free and ready to use, period! It’s BS that it gets delivered with ANYTHING needed to do. That is poor QC and a poor attitude. I did not have to clean my car when I bought it, my scuba gear came ready to use, no adjustments to the seals or valves were required before I used the regulator or BC. The ONLY product I can think of that the manufacturer has this attitude and the consumer in many cases seems to be accepting of the sub-par quality is kayaks. It’s insane.
Oh yeah, duh,
there is a seam in there. Not obvious to me by sight. I can feel it though. I figured somehow it just butted up, then glued. That should be pretty strong at least, I would think.
Paul S.
haven’t read the whole thread, sorry
but I just bought a WS Tempest two months ago and have been happy with the quality. I like WS boats; have two of them now.