Buying that goodwill
Let the kayak dealers and customers provide the post production feedback and the large dicount houses provide the income. Sounds like a square deal.
this all comes with being a large corp
– Last Updated: Jan-26-07 11:14 AM EST –
In a way WS/Confluence should be flattered. If this were some niche manufacturer we wouldn't have this kind of response to such a post.
If I worked at WS/Confluence I would be complimented for the attention, strive for improvement but also make the results very visible (having a rep (flatpick) in these forums helps). This is an opportunity for a company with the visibility and sales potential of WS/Confluence.
and if I was a dealer or customer
I’d feel honored to contribute to their learning curve as they provide great values to the discount houses.
or think twice about ordering up composite boats wondering if they really got it right this time.
yep
My thoughts on quality
First…I have never owned a kayak individually or as a program director that didn’t need some sort of tweaking. They all require maintenance, and my Brit boats got re-freshed evry three years or so by a composite shop to fix cracks etc.
I can say with accuracy that composite construction is costly, and more complex than some here realize. It’s amazing how many little variables can surface. Constant improvement is key, and nailing issues once they arise. I applaud the small guys like ONNO and QCC for their attention to detail. I bet even they have had issues from time to time.
I too am a bit of a perfectionist and I do agree that the big guys can do better, and I think they are. Price wars and tight margins trickle down to lower paid workers and turnover. This can be a challenge, but again, I’m seeing improvement. Lee’s comments about the Chatham hatch rings are/were true. If done right they were great, and Necky spends big $$ on Valley hatches!! So it’s bewildering to poorly install an expensive hatch. They have revised this process and things are better there. Likewise the composite boats coming out now are awesome. But it took a couple of years to nail it. My older comp 16 is a tough boat and I love it, but I did tweak a few things. It is however taking abuse better than any boat owned to date.
So, while I understand that boats are costly and quality is hugely important, I can say that these mega corps are not making much money…look at the financials…
Consumer input is listened to and I believe Confluence will resolve issues as they arise, as will Johnsons. I have many friends in the business who care deeply about quality.
Keep up the feedback, and address it to the manufacturers often.
Another thing that some may relate to is the fact that R&D can design and spec excellent product only to have some purchasing agent change it in an effort to cut cost and make their bottom line look good. I suspect the cheap rusty clip on WS skegs would qualify for that scenario. All good folk trying…sometimes things get awry in bigger outfits. Safe paddling!
yep
no one is getting rich in this biz.
Hope they’ve improved
as my 06 poly tempest had holes drilled in error for the footbraces, filled in and sold as a 1st quality. The dealer said that is probably how they make the boat although i knew that was a bogus remark! I took it as i had waited a long time for this kayak to come in and would loose another summer waiting for another and was assured by WS the fill ins will never open up and leak! Steve S. was kind enough to offer me a replacement at a show but it was not in my state and I wasnt able to get there for that timing. I got an additional discount but i do worry about those holes in the future. That was an error on one of the people who do the finishing hardware as the mold was perfect. Hope their staffing is better educated now since their changeover!
Some Assurance
I had some new holes drilled and some old holes filled in order to move the seat back in my older poly Tempest. The welds have held up just fine. This has been quite a few years ago.
Good to know
thanks for the reassurance - hope these welds hold as well as yours and never put me in a dangerous situation.
Forgot to mention - originally went 2 states over for a poly tempest 165 of same year only to find a small hole in its hull from dirt in the mold!!
holes
You should be in no danger of having these holes leak. It does sound as if they look like crap!
Not too bad looking
but as the boat isnt one solid color, its pretty obvious. What bothers me more is that the plastic all around those areas now has a rough texture unlike the smooth original finish causing scum and algae to stick in those sections!
i have been wondering:
kayakmaker…
do you work for confluence???
a couple of times there have been messages from you written in a different person…me vs. us…we…
so in the theme of the non-guerrila marketing who do you work for???
rob
(who is unafiliated with any specific manufacturer but does work for two instruction groups…)