I probably won’t end up getting either, but was curious on opinions. I am visiting my wife’s family out of state and notice two kayaks close to me that are interesting. Both older but appear to be geared to larger people. The first is the dagger apostle. Not a lot of information about it. I know it was an imported kayak and does not seem to get a lot of discussion. It also has a metal tube running the length to add stiffness. It is also heavy at 69lbs. But is $450. Seems like one big complaint is the colors…
The other is a current designs storm gt. Again not much on here, at least not in the past 10 years. It is also a big heavy kayak close to the same size and weight as the dagger. Like the dagger it also has the metal tube for stiffness. I have read the metal can cause issues. The storm is listed for $800. I have no experience with either, but the current designs seems to make a really nice kayak. Again I am probably not going to pick up either of these two, but maybe I would get one of these at a later date, or maybe it will just be an interesting conversation. Would people buy either at that price if the conditions were the same? Is the CD more because it is better, or just because the dagger seems to not be as easy to sell?
For me, schlepping a 69 lb kayak around (or even the Storm at 64 lbs) would get old quickly.
I hear that, and while i would like to have a 40lb kayak, I know that isn’t in the cards for me, and at least for now I am blessed with the ability to load a 70lb kayak above my head. This won’t always be the case
Good for you, and may you have that strength for many, many years.
My favorite kayak in that class (sort of) was an Old Town Cayuga 160 with their "Polylink 3 PE hull - 16 ft, 54 lbs, good stability, decent speed, and nice outfitting (comfy seat and useful thigh pads.
Well now it is starting to look like I may take a loot at that apostle in person. Is there a good reason to stay away from getting it? I am not in my Yukon and I don’t have crossbars for the bmw, but he said he had a set of Thule crossbars and j cradles too. Still waiting to find out what he wants for those. But it may be something I will be taking a look at
Well I am getting pretty interested, unless there is a reason I should be staying away from a dagger apostle kayak. They said,
“You could have all (rack, j-cradle, kayak, paddle, etc) for $500.”
Yup - this is where the addiction begins…… You start out at “just curious, no intention to buy”, and next thing you know……
lol yeah. I was really eyeing the storms, or a current designs solstice. This seems to be close spec wise as the storm. But available close, and at what seems to be a good price
I looked at the Storm but was told it’s a bit of a barge.
Is the cockpit depth something I should be concerned with? I notice it says 11” on the apostle and 14” on the storm. Really the other specs are very close. Cockpit is 1” shorter and 0.5” narrower on the apostle. The storm is 4lbs lighter. Over all the apostle is .5” narrower and 1” shorter. This has all new lines on it and is coming with bow lines and straps j cradles and crossbars. Also a 242cm bending branches paddle. I know I need to sit in it first, to make a final decision on how it fits. I do have size 15 shoes though. The cross bars have the load assist pole in the front, so that is nice. I figure I can still get another one or even a new one down the road. This is on my way home and seems like a good deal. Again the biggest complaints I have read are colors, and weight. While I am not a huge fan of the purple and black, I will take it. Weight would obviously be a lot better if it was a fiberglass hull, but it would be 3x the price.
I know there is going to be a difference, due to being totally different kayaks, but any guesses how it will paddle compared to the old town dirigo 14 I have now? The apostle is heavier, but it is narrower and longer. I have only ever paddled the dirigo 14 I have now.
Cockpit depth of 11" could be an issue given size 15 feet are almost 12 1/2" long without shoes. Although feet are usually angled while paddling, wiggle room be quite limited. I don’t know about you, but I need to be able to move around some on longer trips.
Good that you can try it out.
Well thanks for the help but wife says it is too expensive. Apparently $300 is a very expensive kayak, and no way do I need a $450 kayak. She couldn’t believe I wanted it…
That sounds like a really old Storm. Have never seen one with the metal bar. They want too much for it.
I misspoke before, they said it doesn’t have the metal support. When I was researching it I either thought I read the storm had one, or it maybe originally had one and the article I read was that old. Either way they said it did not have the metal support. But I still thought the 800 was a little high. Maybe not though. I wish I could have set in the apostle if nothing else. Then I would have had a better idea. Sometimes my wife and I are in totally different books, not just on different pages. She was expecting to spend under $150 on a used kayak since she has seen them at stores for $150-$200 new. I tried explaining the difference in kayaks, she admitted she didn’t know anything about them, but thought it was too pointy and needed to be shorter and fatter like a “normal” kayak…. Stuff like that. Funny thing is, both of us were in favor of picking one up while we were up this way, if we found one for a good price we liked. That is what I thought I did. Ohwell 
Boo. Too pointy??? She should get a bathtub, er, I mean “normal” kayak, and you get the long, pointy one, and then see which one has more fun paddling circles around the other one. And $450 for a nicer boat (disclaimer: I know absolutely nothing about the one you are looking at) WITH crossbars and load assist (assuming they fit your vehicle) seems like a good deal. But I’m an enabler, from way back. Maybe take her to look at $3k-$6k boats, and then come back to the $450 one, and she will become more reasonable, er, I mean, willing to let you get the one you want. As a Certified Wife, I am knowledgeable about these things.
For reference here is the normal kayak I should be looking at.
And here is the one I was looking at.
She said something about people will be laughing at me for how silly it looks. I told her i didn’t care…
You won’t hear them laughing from their Sundolphins for long, as you zoom past.
And the sea/touring kayak is the “normal” one. In my opinion.
But seriously, what type of paddling do you plan to do? What type of water? That’s probably the most important factor in which type of boat to get.
Personally, I am biased against Sundolphin. Based only on the fact that we had one for a while, and we both hated it. It was a sit on top that we named The Spud. It paddled like a potato. The harder you paddled, the more it wanted to turn in a circle. And it was junk - you could hear nuts and bolts rattling around between the layers when you picked it up. Nothing appeared to be missing, so I think an employee at the plant just set down some extra parts and ended up sealing them inside. But it didn’t give us an impression of quality. I can’t say if they’re all like that, but I do think a better quality used boat will always be a better choice than a brand new bottom-level one.
If you’re going to go out once a year to poke around in the weeds along shore, taking wildlife photos, then the stubby boat is meant for that. If you want to take it out in some waves, or paddle longer distances, or camp, or do anything more challenging, a longer, pointier boat is the way to go. Maybe hold off, sit in some boats, figure out what you actually need (want), and try to reach some sort of compromise on the cost. Save some pennies to add to the $150? The Apostle would be my choice between the two, but there is likely something more perfect out there for you, if you can be patient.
Finally, there is something to be said for a starter boat (unless it paddles like a potato and rattles like a change jar).
Ok that’s a stylish Dagger. I don’t usually like their color schemes but that one is nice. Has a nice day hatch and straps on all the hatch covers, other than it having a rudder instead of a skeg I’d take it home and buy complimentary padding gear.
In terms of judging a kayak by the specifications, it’s a start but it’s often hard to make equivalencies, since there are a myriad of other factors like hull shape, etc. You really do need to sit in it, and preferably, to paddle it. That being said, if you have big feet, finding a kayak that fits them comfortably is going to be an issue to watch for. I imagine 11” depth might not work for you. Regarding your wife, tell her you want a kayak that will last! A cousin of mine bought two on special at a big box store for $150 each, and three months later he was selling them on Facebook marketplace, because he hated them. They were slow, poky, uncomfortable, and wouldn’t go straight, he said. So it ended up being a false economy.
I’m sure you can find something much better than that used for around $350 or so, and I agree that no one will laugh at you when you’re going at a much faster pace than all the big box store kayaks. And also, who cares what other people think? (This said as someone who often paddles a 19’ skin-on-frame kayak wearing a tuilik. So what if people think I’m weird? 
)
I was hoping to at least get to sit in the dagger, maybe the 11" was too short. my dirigo is 14" and it looks like the storm is also a 14" deck. I will check the next time I get the dirigo out and see how much room i have for my feet. I also tend to not car what other people may or may laugh at. I can not please them or care to try. Funny enough my wife asked me about going kayaking soon at a new location she has been wanting to go. I told her if we would have gotten that dagger kayak we could have went there this next weekend… not that it honestly would have made a difference, she didn’t realize that though 