Good observations. Ego, hubris, and status-driven behaviors cloud judgment and are all red flags.
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There are two separate issues (at least) in Joey’s video.
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Internet trolls: ACA isn’t responsible for trolls on the internet even if the troll is an ACA instructor. Nastiness on line is a fact of social media; threats are not uncommon. There’s an old saying that a writer willingly appears in public with their pants down.
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Quality of instructors, I say right on, babe!
For years I have watched kayakers be awarded instructorships purely on their skills with no consideration as to whether they can TEACH those skills. While Joey says he knows and respects all the L3s in the southeast, I can tell you there is more than one with whom I would not paddle as a twosome.
Prepandemic, I was paddling the Outer Banks and personally witnessed a well known L4 instructor encourage students to go on a circumnavigation trip in conditions they weren’t prepared for. People got into trouble and the circumnavigation was called off 1/3 of the way through. The instructor, to his credit, believes that each of us has a deep well of potential that we can tap into if only encouraged. Such positivity is great, but you need to vet that deep well and not push students too far. To the instructor’s discredit, and I brought this up privately with the trip leader, this rough water lovin’ instructor didn’t really want to get stuck leading the alternative calm water paddle. His desire to indulge his own interests over-rode better judgement. That is not a good quality in an instructor.
As to Joey’s point about the quality of L1-2 instructors. It’s hard to get the L3-4 to teach beginning classes. They don’t want to talk about basic strokes and paddler’s boxes. As a never been certified but L3 level paddler, I’d love to benefit from the experience that an L4-5 could offer, but they only occasionally teach anything other than advanced rough water and surfing classes at symposiums. As with so much in our culture, you must always go faster and do more bad ass things or you aren’t on the A List.
I dropped my ACA membership a few years ago when the Olympic Committee kurfuffle happened. I still am not quite sure what went down as the communication was so incompetent I couldn’t follow it, but ACA wanted to devote more resources to being the official Olympic Committee for paddle sports and was being somewhat clandestine about letting members know. They wanted to stack the committees that make decisions with competitive athletes. Personally I am sick to death of glorifying competitions. ACA owes the sport much more. It was the final straw for me.
Question for those who have signed the ACA release form…the last one I signed had a clause that indemnifies the event organizers even in the case of negligence. Maybe that’s changed in the last few years.
ACA is just another bloated organization with a ton of politics, easily offended individuals and a self-perpetuation focus.
George Carlin got a bit dark in his old age, but one quote from him that is so prescient now (at so many levels):
“People are wonderful. I love individuals. I hate groups of people. I hate a group of people with a ‘common purpose’. 'Cause pretty soon they have little hats. And armbands. And fight songs. And a list of people they’re going to visit at 3am. So, I dislike and despise groups of people but I love individuals. Every person you look at; you can see the universe in their eyes, if you’re really looking.”
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I signed that Waiver this morning as part of renewing my club membership. Excerpt:
I hereby Release…covenant not to sue… FROM ALL LIABILITY, CLAIMS, DEMANDS,LOSSES, INJURIES, DAMAGE TO PROPERTY, OR OTHER DAMAGES ON MY ACCOUNT CAUSED OR ALLEGED TO BE CAUSED INWHOLE OR IN PART BY THE NEGLIGENCE OF THE “RELEASEES” OR OTHERWISE, INCLUDING NEGLIGENT RESCUEOPERATIONS
Pretty broad. And really no one should sign it but if you’re in an ACA club you cannot paddle without it. I’m not sure what the BCU’s release says. Last time I went looking for any of its information it was behind a “members only” wall.
Basically “I’m doing this ACA sponsored or endorsed event on my own and if anything goes wrong I have no one but myself to seek remedy from” Might as well just paddle with other like-minded people and skip the paperwork altogether!
My point in posting the video was to induce commentary like that offered by Celia and KayakerBee. Pros and Cons of the ACA. I think these issues could have been raised in that video without the “beef” component.
“ Pretty broad. And really no one should sign it but if you’re in an ACA club you cannot paddle without it.”
Exactly. This is the world we live in now, and it irks me no end. I’m the organization, here’s the waiver, sign and participate or go home. We will protect ourselves and you are on your own.
In fairness, the world loves a good lawsuit so this is the way that those with the most to lose protect themselves. The little guy either goes along or paddles alone.
I don’t think Joey’s video would have made sense without the beef, though. He had to explain, in his long rambling style, where the complaint started in order to make his case. It’s interesting that within 24 hours of posting, ACA big wigs were addressing his concerns. The power of social media and a case study in going public, especially if you are entrenched in the industry that supports what you are criticizing.
We’ll have to see if he really does quit or if ACA will placate Joey enough to keep him as a member.
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No waiver will protect the issuer against negligence. They aren’t nearly as bullet-proof as they sound.
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And I have had a lawyer tell me that you cannot sign away your rights against negligence when I asked him about this specific clause.
To me, that just makes this more egregious. The lawyer who wrote this knows full well it won’t hold up so it’s an intimidation tactic designed to make people think they don’t have any recourse. Grrrrr.
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Precisely.
just for the record, he started his business somewhat prior to the pandemic.
I ordered a boat from him in Aug '19 (picked it up early pandemic).
Thread is continuing 
between Joey and myself.
Thanks to those who summarized the video person’s complaints.
For background, I am an ACA Level 4 sea kayaking instructor. Took my first IDW (Instructor Development Workshop) around 2007. Became a level 3 instructor around 2012. Upgraded to level 4 a few years later. Here are my thoughts on the skill level issue.
It has been known that there was a wide variety of skill levels between instructors. And there were some steps a few years before the pandemic to alleviate this, particularly on the padding skill side.
When I was certified as an instructor, the process was to take a 3 day IDW and then to basically redo the class, but as an ICE (Instructor Certification Exam). In our area, we don’t do level 1 and 2 (most of our paddling locations regularly exceed these levels), so in the ICE you tested for both 3 and 4 at the same time, and certifying instructor would decide level based on your skills and conditions (if you passed).
A common issue to this was that it was pretty common to have people show up for the IDW (workshop) who were not even level 3 paddlers (myself included, in that first IDW I did). So to prevent this, the ACA made it so you had to pass an assessment of your padding level before you could take the IDW or ICE. They also got rid of the joint level 3 and 4 IDW and made them separate.
There are costs to instructors for this. Pay for the IDW, ICE, etc. (at least $100 per day), which likely isn’t reimbursed by where you work. Unless you are lucky, as I am, to have IDWs and ICEs reasonably often in your area, you likely have to pay to travel to this. And you can’t work during this time, so lost revenue.
So before, a good paddler could take a 3 day IDW and 3 day ICE and be certified at level 4. Say $600 class cost, 6 days, plus any travel.
Now to become a level 4 instructor, it is 1 day to assess as a level 3 paddler, 3 days for the level 3 IDW, 3 days for level 3 ICE, 1 day to assess as level 4 paddler, 3 day for level 4 IDW, and 3 days for level 4 ICE. Say $1400 and 14 days of lost income, plus travel costs. Significantly more effort/resources required.
Instructors are not making it rich. These out of pocket costs and lost income can really hurt. And for many there really isn’t much value to being ACA certified (not something they look for where work).
Added challenge is that it has made the IDWs and ICEs less common. Where before you could have an IDW or ICE of mixed level 3 and 4, now you need to have enough students of just one level to fill a class (especially hard he higher the level - I did a level 5 IDW a few years ago and we had 2 students total. If they weren’t trying to certify an instructor trainer at the same time, it would have been canceled).
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I am glad I never joined the ABRA. I read about one book per day. I cannot imagine not reading or being forced or encouraged to read only one way. So, I guess you would call me a rouge reader. I read anywhere and everywhere and I disobey all the rules, and do not pay 70 bucks per year to dues. I just read. I love to read.
As to canoeing. I have paddled about 600 miles of the Missouri River. 600 miles of the Green River twice, well may 6 or 8 times. I have paddled the Colorado from below Moab all the way to Parker AZ (including all rapids and reservoirs. The only piece I can think of that I have not paddled is the stretch from the base of the Glen Canyon dam Lees Ferry and I used the road to go around the Pierce Ferry rapids, it was running a solid Class VI at the time. Deso/Gray 5 times, Love that stretch of the river, Flaming Gorge twice, Cat once, Grand once, Powell and Mead each once, Black’s canyon4 .5 times, Mohave and Havasu three times each. Hundreds of other days, dozens of other rivers.
I don’t need an organization to read a book. Two entirely separate activities, and nothing alike. I can deal with whitewater and Class IV or V rapids. But absolutely 90% incompetent in running an organization. Do what you love, one or the other, maybe both. Not me. Give me a paddle, and a book.
Thanks for taking us through the process. I was only tangentially aware of what was involved although I have heard plenty of conversations about how it was getting increasingly expensive.
I was thinking back to when I went through PADI SCUBA instructor training. It was a solid week, as I recall of, in-water skills assessment, class plan work and teaching skills. My memory is foggy because it was back in the 80s and I’m no longer active.
It’s also interesting that there is only the ACA (and BCU in British controlled territory) that provide certifications. For SCUBA (in the US) there is/was YMCA, NAUI, PADI and NASDS/SSI. There are literally hundreds around the world though that can certify you for SCUBA. As I said, I’m long out of certification and haven’t been diving for decades so that’s my “good ole days memory”.
Why only two agencies for kayaking, I wonder. Not enough interest…nobody felt we needed another organization…the first one gets the prize? There is no requirement for ACA or BCU credentials to teach other than what an employer wants. And of course certification carries with it legal protections that appeal to employers.
If Joey’s comment about the number of people who have soured on ACA is accurate, maybe another organization can evolve. But then, dare I raise this touchy subject, sea kayaking isn’t at the top of its game right now.
Good, unbiased, first-hand info. Thanks.
My outsider’s perception of the ACA is that it’s elitist and in danger of becoming nothing more than a competition sanctioning body.
The organization largely ignored the boom in recreational kayaking, paddleboarding, and kayak fishing, so there’s a generation or two of paddlers who never heard of it.
Imagine yourself as an entry level paddler who just got their first boat, or who has been renting and taking casual guided trips, and is interested in learning more or finding some instruction. How are you even going to hear about the ACA in the first place? It’s hard to find a non-whitewater focused business or organization that even mentions the ACA, and even harder to find web pages with their logo and web link.
Supposing you do hear about them, you check out the ACA web site and find it has nothing for you except a 20 minute online course that you have to create an account to view, and a collection of links to other people’s YT videos. The courses and instructors you can find through their website are almost exclusively focused on instructor training and certification. Unless you’re looking to be an ACA instructor, the site we’re posting on is a much better source of information for new paddlers.
Suppose you want to find a local club? The ACA web site is virtually useless for that, at least in my area, because most of the listings that come up in their club search are not clubs, and most of the clubs in my area are not ACA members.
Or imagine you’re an entrepreneur looking to open a paddling-related business. You check the ACA web site and it has nothing for you either. There doesn’t seem to be any business affiliation or cross-marketing program, the job postings part of their site is defunct, they don’t represent the industry through lobbying, and they don’t seem to be very active in policy-making or protecting access.
The ACA obviously has a big focus on instructor training and certification, but what are the benefits of being ACA-certified if it’s not going to drive business to you? Given how many recreational kayakers there are now, and given the rising number of rescues and fatalities, why isn’t the ACA focused on new paddler outreach and safety education? They don’t appear to offer any courses or curriculum that could be used to satisfy the mandatory training requirements that may come. In the future, I would expect instructors to spend their time and money getting certified by organizations that are regulatory-compliant.
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Hi everyone. A couple of points that I would like to expand on. First, my “beef” with the ACA has been brewing for a long time. I was proud to be a part of the organization and took my Instructor role seriously. Perhaps I could have expressed my experience and viewpoint in a more expanded version, but seems most here didn’t watch it all anyway.
Let me share the feedback I have gotten in the last 4 days. From the many emails and messages from fellow instructors, 100% support. This included two IT’s and the rest were all practicing instructors. They all see the same thing I have been seeing. Yes, there have been a few people that are not fully in agreement. The intention was to grab a few of the ACA “Higher Ups” attention. It worked and I have a call later today. They have also expressed dissatisfaction with the way things have gone as of late. I will agree with the comment about how the Olympic kerfuffle changed the tone within, and it has not been good ever since.
TomL, after we were both calm and receptive, we had a great conversation. We both had a bit more info than before the call and that is a good thing. I appreciate your passion and I appreciate the call.
So, in the call with TomL, I explained a few things that are coming up frequently. First is lower level paddler skills education. These are not my words, but are of an IT. There are too many “part time” instructors throwing around skill assessments for their friends. I personally was offered twice to be “assessed” for a case of beer on a Saturday. (I chose to go the traditional route instead.) With this happening, as been mentioned before in this thread, the assessed paddler shows up for an L3-L4 with weak fundamental skills. I personally worked an L4 event where we had 10 paddlers, all assessed at L3 that had ZERO experience with ANY surf landing. I personally crossed the impact zone 4 times to coach an inexperience paddler through the surf. All of the coaches there, were put in harms way by a broken system. This same conversation is happening in the PNW where the consequences are much higher that here in the docile South East. Paddlers being given certifications by instructors that are not skilled enough on their own. It is a larger issue than is discussed in public forums.
The other thing TomL and I discussed is the average compensation the ACA employees get. It is not even close to a living wage in one of the most expensive areas of Virginia. They rely heavily on committees of volunteers. While that may have been good in the past. Too many voices in a room just makes noise and not much real progress. The organization is too top heavy and lost touch with the paddling public.
One of the conversations I had with an L3 instructor, he stated that a ACA committee member contacted him when he was having trouble finding a suitable situation to re-certify. “The ACA is having a lot of trouble keeping L3-L5 instructors so please rethink letting your cert go”. Why is that?
The last point I will make, is that the system does not address an instructors ability to teach. They can possess the skills and have reasonable communication skills, but nothing about the teaching skill. The methodology of the ACA teaching style is old. The BC has adapted, although finding a path to the certification or skill level in the BC is not easy to sort out. The old SSEDO model in the ACA is not something I did. I preferred a more cerebral and individual approach to teach.
Now, there is a misconception about me “taking advantage of the pandemic”. I had opened my shop in Jacksonville Florida in 2016. Closed it in 2017 because os a variety of reasons. I moved back to Virginia and immediately got repair requests and started the shop up again in my parents garage. In 2019 I found my current house and the business moved into my detached garage until it outgrew that. In 2020 I was in my first industrial space when the pandemic hit. We fought to keep the doors open by traveling to pick up kayaks in Charleston and Baltimore to keep the lights on. The business has grown because of treating fellow kayakers right and charging fair prices. I had no intention to be a repair shop, my only goal was to be a kayak builder. Now we are both. This is a HARD business to be in and I frequently ask myself why. I could make a ton more money building power boats and have much more time off. But, I love the sport. I love what it has done for me and my life experiences. That is why I stay in it. If I see something that is harming my fragile existence, you’re damn right I am going to have something to say. There is no growth in the status quo. For the sport to survive, especially sea kayaking, there needs to be some discomfort.
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Thanks for the engagement! the conversation we had sure helps with the analytics! You’re the best!
Brilliant assessment, especially the bits about protecting access, lobbying and a useless website.
Hey there Joey.
First of all, thanks for finally acknowledging that some of your dissatisfaction is coming from business concerns. I think that hasn’t always been clear but it is perfectly legitimate and not something non-business owners always understand. An organization that is industry specific shouldn’t be making life complicated for a business devoted to that sport.
I am curious though, why it took so long for these complaints to be made public. You refurbed my Necky a few years ago so you know who I am and that I’ve been involved deeply enough in the Chesapeake area kayak groups to have heard instructors voicing their frustrations - to each other at symposiums, after paddles and on trips. There are a few ITs who have tried to incorporate teaching skills in their certifications. Rick at Cross Currents Sea Kayaking is one of them who has been talking about this way before the pandemic.
It’s good that ACA is talking to you, finally, but concerning that it took a huge risk on your part to make that happen. If all those 100% supportive instructors and ITs had put their paddles together to collectively approached ACA about their frustrations maybe you wouldn’t have had to put your head on the chopping block.
Here’s hoping things improve at ACA and that our sport can flourish as a result. Thanks for sticking your neck out.
Organizations evolve. For some, growth is important; they want to attract and serve more people in more ways. Others are not so interested in growth but instead focus on advancing the specific interests of their core membership. Both strategies carry risk. No org can do everything for everyone, so mission expansion can also mean mission dilution. On the other hand, organizations that adhere to rigid boundaries around a narrow mission risk irrelevance when potential new members are turned off because they have different interests, needs, and preferences.
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Thanks Bee!
I’m pretty sure people got defensive and turned the video off. It’s human nature to look away when the truth gets spoken. If they had made it to the point where I spoke about the impact on the paddlesports gear manufacturers and paddle shops, it probably would be a bit more clear. I had a great conversation with the chair of the new Paddlesports Trade Coalition and we talked about this problem. They were in full agreement that this is a bigger issue with customer retention, and people staying with the sport. We, as a manufacturing community and educational community need to work together. I am working hard and having some hard conversation to foster a cooperative culture. Sure, there will be issues. But the ACA, Paddle Canada and BC have never had any type of feedback from manufacturers. That is hopefully going to change.
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